I wonder who he was divining? seriously! If i walked up to the average nonjw and said hi I'm anointed and I'm going to heaven and your not and got reveal biblical understanding to me and me alone or me and my select few . Wouldn't they throw a straight jacket on me straight away? que no?
did freddy practice auto writing
by jeckle 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jeckle
ok no takers I just think its odd jws don't see this as crazy. I mean like funny farm and meds all day long crazy dilussions of grandeur.
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InterestedOne
I hear what you're saying. If I came up to you and said my group and I are fulfilling Bible prophecy, and therefore you need to do what we say, you would call me crazy. However, I think I can hear what my JW friend would say. She would say the WT leaders like Freddy simply recognized that they were the only ones following the Bible in their time. Couple that with their time calculations for what they considered Bible prophecy, and they were basically saying "if the shoe fits, wear it." So they went with it and publicly made their various claims about being God's only organization in this time, etc. From the outside, it looks like a self-centered interpretation of the Bible and current events. I wonder if there is a term in psychology for that kind of phenomenon, like I vaguely remember a study that showed most people think they are smarter and better looking than average.
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Band on the Run
An excellent point. How did Freddie Franz get legitmacy for his theories called truth? Why would anyone listen? My father was a bodyguard to Russell and Knorr. Although Franz was not a Bethel hit list of slavedrivers like Knorr, there was respect for him. I was too young to have a real feel for Knorr and Franz. I was always told Knorr was organizational but the real brains was Franz. No one ever said why. Much was made of his seminary degree or time in seminary but zillions attend seminary every semster. Strange.
We all know it wasn't successful seeing into the future. I recall his pre-1975 talk at Yankee Stadium. We were told it was closely held concerning the date (don't tell outsiders) and he veered off into a discussion of Eve's menstrual cycle to conduct his caluclations as I sank into my seat with embarassment. They were always embarassing me sexually. My father was a true prude with many inhibitions but a force. It is all a messy glob.
Why would Knorr defer to Franz? Why did not Franz become president? Who decided the issues in the middle where it wasn't clearly organizational or theology?
It is truly embarassing to recall how I revered Franz's wisdom. Knorr was a much better public speaker by oddles and oddles.
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jeckle
thank you and what is more he never even finished any studies i have as much credentials as he does by if not more.
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Refriedtruth
As I scroll down through this thread I am thinking how.......I have been watching the series on the making of the 1930's German Nazi party and how who's who got stumbled into right place right time for Hitler and his brown shirts to take power and don't forget they weren't all dumb beer hall brawlers some were brilliant nearly conquered the world.
Interesting well same with mighty lead impaired brain damaged crazed Roman emperors some real nutcase who drank lead laced wine becase it made it taste sweet
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blondie
No but I heard Rutherford felt that the angels communicated with him.
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jeckle
ya my point if i walked down the street and started telling people angels or god speaks to me i mean directly to me i can hear his voice. how fast would it take to get me commited or put in a psyche ward. really! but we actually or our family or the cult believes this about the gb or ff or jfr wow!
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charlie brown jr.
It's a good point but I don't think you need to be anointed alone with that thinking.
It doesn't have to a going to Heaven thing...
Everyday we have people saying they are the only ones who God won't Kill and they will Live Forever in a Paradise and the Whole world including Antarctica will be a Paradise.. and they will pet Lions and Tigers and Bears....Oh my! And These people Actually come to your House and Knock on your Door usually with little Children next to them telling You these Things....
And Everyone who died in the World Will Be Resurected and also have the chance to Live Forever .....I know I'm forgetting alot more....
They walk the streets every single day..... They are viewed as Crazy.... but no one locks them up and puts them in straight jackets....
WOW!! To think I used to do that..... I was CRAZY!!!! LMAO!!!
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Band on the Run
Who determines valid religious belief, awash in sanctimonis respect in the US, vs. psychotic delusions? I associated with a woman suffering from schizophrenia once. Her voices told her to dunk herself in water immediately, maybe related to her seminary training. She was dragged against her will and committed. What is the different between Jesus' voices and prophetic voices, such as John in Revelation, and schizophrenia. All cultures were aware of mental illness. One exults you and the other strips you of their civil rights. Not even criminals are carted off the way the perceived mentally ill are.
For decades, the Soviet gulag was the residence for political dissidents. Western observers could not find a single element of mental illness in them, even after long deprivation and punishment. The Soviets believed they were mentally ill for dissenting. Merely dissenting meant you were will. No other explanation made sense.
I am curious how Freddie Franz garnered legitimacy. He had to be more than available. Somehow he defined doctrine. The seminary experience had to help but I don't see how it was determinative. Did he offer bribes? What type of person believes they are receiving revelations unknown since the infancy of the church? If you read Barth, Luther, Bonhoffer, Merton, C S Lewis, Hans Kung - they have faith in themselves but do not believe they are the only way God's holy spirit functions. Luther did not believe it in the beginning but evidently power went to his senses. Freddie Franz had to use a bathroom and as Dylan famously said, he had to stand naked.