Answer from a JW friend about blood

by uncle_onion 36 Replies latest jw friends

uncle_onion

This is what a JW friend sent to me. I had got him to read the Latest letters on Blood that were posted last week.I can t believe he read them. This is his reply (typos and all). Any ideas on how to reply to him?
..
..
Blood according to the
best medical dictionaly is a fluid that circulates
throught the heart ,arteries,veins and capillaries
carring
nourishment,electrolytes,hormones,vitamins,antibodies,heat,
and oxygen to the tissues. and taking away waste
matter and carbon dioxide. Human blood is composed of
basophils,eosinophils,neurophils,monocytes,
lymphocytes,platkets, red cells, (erythrocytes)
It is a trasport system. Many things are transported
to tissue like antibodies which not every one has,
albumin a protein which is used to make muscle tissue,
immune globulins which not every one has.
I answere all the questions the brother asked up to
about page 12.is the amount of blood components is how
we deal judicially with some one --no. If they take
one red cell, or any cell of blood that is a sin.
taking something that is not really a blood component
is a gray matter because according to blood experts is
not really blood like albumin. albumin is not blood we
use immune globulin which is carried in our pharmacy
not the bloos bank because the blood bank says it is a
drug not a blood component.Plasma is blood we do not
except that. When blood id processed for any
components such as platlets ,which we do not except or
for even non blood proteins, such as antibodies all
the parts of the blood is used nothing is wasted
except monocytes which have to be destroyed according
to FDA guidlines. They are usually burned , so none of
the gray matter components are blood NONE NONE
answer this what other religion respects and refuses
to except blood ? tell me that.
I also had another story to tell you about the husband
of one of our sisters . he was convicted with child
molestation about 10 years ago. he was
disfellowshipped and is still in jail as far as i
know. In the boston area 130 preastes so far have been
caught in the last 2 months. about 30 in providence in
both cases the bishops and cardinals just moved them
around. it can happen even with us but it is rare.
very
rare. our circuit ocer seerer tols us about his last
circuit in which an entire elder body was removed for
not doing their job. we try to keep the congregation
clean.
I will answer more when i get a chance to read more
bob
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Geordie

One question from me.
Where does the ALBUMIN come from?
Scully

uncle_onion:
your friend writes:
If they take
one red cell, or any cell of blood that is a sin.
taking something that is not really a blood component
is a gray matter because according to blood experts is
not really blood like albumin. albumin is not blood we
use immune globulin which is carried in our pharmacy
not the bloos bank because the blood bank says it is a
drug not a blood component.Plasma is blood we do not
except that. When blood id processed for any
components such as platlets ,which we do not except or
for even non blood proteins, such as antibodies all
the parts of the blood is used nothing is wasted
except monocytes which have to be destroyed according
to FDA guidlines. They are usually burned , so none of
the gray matter components are blood NONE NONE
First of all, I'd like to challenge your friend to go to the butcher shop and buy any sirloin steak for his next barbeque. Then let some of the liquid that drains from the meat - even a drop or two - fall onto a microscope slide. There will be lots of red blood cells, hundreds perhaps, in those tiny drops of liquid. When he eats the steak, he'll be eating blood.
Secondly, I can most certainly tell you that 'gray area' items such as immune globulins, clotting factors derived from platelets, and albumin ARE regarded as blood products. Current guidelines from Canadian Blood Services (formerly known as the Canadian Red Cross) stipulate that anyone receiving these components be given a document stating that they have received a BLOOD PRODUCT. Nowhere is it described as a "drug". I have administered these products to patients hundreds of times, and I have a legal and ethical responsibility to disclose to my patients that what they are receiving is a BLOOD PRODUCT, not a drug, and to discuss the risks and benefits of receiving or refusing the BLOOD PRODUCT with them. There is a far more serious approach to administering an injection of immune globulin to a patient, than for example an injection of a narcotic.
Your friend is in a state of denial, which is clearly evident from the bizarre rationalizations in his note to you.
Notice how he next deflects attention away from the blood issue and then talks about the issue of molestation... he only knows of ONE case from 10 years ago of a JW who was a molester and remains DFd to this day, whereas 130 "preastes" have been caught in the last two months. Yes, yes, point the finger at the Catholics, we know the routine, don't we? Just remember.... when someone points a finger at you, there are 3 fingers on the same hand pointing back at them....
Love, Scully
In the desert things find a way to survive. Secrets are like this too. They work their way up through the sands of deception so men can know them. - The X Files
patio34

Hi Uncle_Onion,
I don't know much about all the argumentation he offers. Scully does though, as will Hawkaw, et al, if they see this.
It does seem to me that the JW is splitting hairs on the whole issue.
Furthermore, on the issue of child molestation, i find the 130 priests hard to believe. And how would he know there was only one case of JW pedophilia when it's covered up and not often prosecuted?
I agree with Scully that he's in denial and refuses to be objective.
BTW, it's great to see you here! Hope you're well. Whatever happened on any df'g with you?
Pat
"It's easier to put on slippers than to carpet the world." (from "Stuart Saves His Family")
Solace

Blood,Blood,Blood,,,Blah,Blah,Blah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Im just sick to my stomach that these people think they can make decisions like these involving other peoples lives. People are dead and they could care less....I read somewhere that someone sued their church for not presenting Jesus in person as promised by their priest. I wonder, could we sue the society for loss of life, since victims were brainwashed by the Org. or is it considered their own free will since they signed the damn blood card.???
Gopher

UO,
Your friend offers no scriptural support for his stance. I suppose he thinks you know what verses they use. But still the argument he offers is, "We don't take blood because we don't take blood. And we're the only right religion because of that!!!"
The blood restrictions in the scriptures seem to be primarily diet restrictions. Blood is not a food, it is an organ. And JW's have long accepted organ transplants.
As a previous poster pointed out, when it comes down to life/death, JW's seem to prefer death. That's what their murderous "WT Society" tells them to think. That the SYMBOLISM of blood is more important than actually preserving life.
It's enough to make a grown man cry.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
plmkrzy

Heaven says
(I wonder, could we sue the society for loss of life, since victims were brainwashed by the Org. or is it considered their own free will since they signed the damn blood card.???)
Signing the blood card would have to have a purpose other then to make the doctor aware that the patient refuses blood. The Society wouldn't print up 6,000.000 cards to distribute around the world for that purpose. If they were only concerned with the recipient(typo?)
then they would just require all JWs to make there own card's and carry them in their wallets. Anyone is more then capable of doing that on there own if they wanted. By having an official blood card from the WTBTS signed by each person is for the protection of the WTBTS not for the protection of the patient. The card IS (even though it may not say so) A release of responsibility.
Personally I never understood the histeria surrounding the blood issue anyway.
If a person doesn't want blood fine leave um alone, If they decide they Do want blood, fine leave um alone. When are people going to start making their own dicissions?
I am well aware of the fear that goes with being Df'd and then shunned if you are a JW and choose to accept blood. I'm not trying to be an ass about it but sheesh if your in a life or death situation and want to accept the blood then accept it! So what if your disfellowshiped! I'm sorry but so what if your shunned! F**K'um if they want to treat you like that. And if belonging to the WTBTS is something really important to you then stay! They will have to reinstate you anyway when they stop disfellowshipping people which they more then likely will do eventually. It is a personal choice even if you don't think it is. You have the power to make your own choices.
TD

I’ve broken up this poor individual’s reply and added some brief comments.
Blood according to the
best medical dictionaly is a fluid that circulates
throught the heart ,arteries,veins and capillaries
carring nourishment,electrolytes,hormones,vitamins,antibodies,heat,
and oxygen to the tissues. and taking away waste
matter and carbon dioxide. Human blood is composed of
basophils,eosinophils,neurophils,monocytes,
lymphocytes,platkets, red cells, (erythrocytes)
It is a trasport system.
As long as you ignore spelling, OK so far
Many things are transported to tissue like antibodies….
Antibodies are not, strictly speaking transported to tissue. They function as a plasma solute, that is to say within the plasma itself.
….which not every one has,
Wrong. Not everyone has the same antibodies for the simple reason that not everyone has been exposed to the same diseases, but everyone most certainly has some antibodies.
…albumin a protein which is used to make muscle tissue,
More accurately, albumin regulates the passage of water through the capillaries, it binds toxins and heavy metals, it prevents red blood cells from clumping and it transports certain nutrients. Low levels of albumin causes a condition known as edema, where fluid seeps from the capillaries into the surrounding tissue, causing it to swell.
….immune globulins which not every one has.
Wrong again, poor guy. He doesn’t seem to realize that immune globulins and antibodies are one and the same thing – or that everyone has them.
I answere all the questions the brother asked up to
about page 12.is the amount of blood components is how
we deal judicially with some one --no. If they take
one red cell, or any cell of blood that is a sin.
Wrong again. It depends on how cellular components are taken. To cite one example, USDA standards for cow’s milk allow a somatic cell count of up to 750K/cm3. Goat’s milk can have an SCC of up to 1000K/cm3. Somatic cells are primarily nuetraphils, a type of white blood cell. When the amount of milk and other dairy products that one would consume even in a day is considered, it can be seen how meaningless the his quoted statement above really is as a single 8 oz. (250ml) cup of cow's milk can easily contain 50,000,000 white blood cells
Another example involves organ and bone marrow transplants, which are currently a matter of conscience. Both are saturated with whole blood.
taking something that is not really a blood component
is a gray matter because according to blood experts is
not really blood like albumin.
The claim that albumin is not a blood component is not only ignorant, it is a patent denial of reality. Blood is a combination of both cellular and liquid components, as any college level introduction to human anatomy will tell you.
Further, while it is true to say that albumin is not really blood, the same can be said with equal force concerning the prohibited components, red blood cells, white blood cells, plasma and platelets.
in our pharmacy not the bloos bank because the blood bank says it is a
drug not a blood component
Wrong again. All pharmaceutical companies obtain plasma proteins, including antibodies from blood banks, which most certainly do consider them to be a component of blood.
When blood id processed for any
components such as platlets ,which we do not except or
for even non blood proteins, such as antibodies….
Here is a common format by which blood proteins are ordered, one of many available on the internet:
http://www.ohsu.edu/cliniweb/D12/D12.776.124.html
Notice that the list includes about everything, immune globulins, serum albumin, clotting factors, platelet growth factor, etc.
To claim that any of these are not blood proteins simply shows that this individual does not have a clue.
All the parts of the blood is used nothing is wasted…….
so none of the gray matter components are blood NONE
True, but the forbidden components are not “blood” either. “Blood” is the sum of its components both large and small.
answer this what other religion respects and refuses
to except blood ? tell me that.
Hardly a badge of honor. Jehovah’s Witnesses show respect for blood at the expense of showing respect for life itself.
I also had another story to tell you about the husband……..

Completely irrelevant.
uncle_onion

Thanks for the info. Keep it coming. I am going to knock him bandy with my reply!!!
BTW Pat, no the Elders never did come around and see me. I have no idea why!
UO
hawkaw

TD,
You did a good job .... no ... you did an outstanding job explaining it. But I just want to state a few more things. I hope you don't mind.
The Watchtower, as a medical consultant has stated that the blood components - red blood cells, platelets and plasma are basically banned. White Blood cells are kinda banned depending on how the Watchtower determines if procedure is a transplantation or a transfusion (eg. peripheral blood stem cell autographing). However, a Witness can use his/her free conscience in deciding whether "any part" of these components can be transfused.
Why,
Well one reason is the Watchtower's placental barrier rationalization. The Watchtower recognizes that albumin (which is a part of the plasma) naturally transfers from mom to fetus (an individual human in the Watchtower's eyes). Thus, God cannot break his own law. Therefore, the Watchtower will not ban albumin and other blood parts and the Witness can use his/her free conscience. Of course this same research has also proven red blood cells naturally pass the placenta too but what the hell do we know.
A second and just as insane reason is that the blood component "parts" are considered by the Watchtower as "specialized man-made" products. For example, hemoglobin (which was banned up until June, 2000) is a part (97% by dry weight) of a red blood cell and naturally found in blood. Witnesses are now allowed (conscience permitting) to take hemoglobin because, according to the Watchtower, it is one of these "specialized man-made" products.
Yet as just one example, red blood cells need to be separated from whole blood. And to separate red blood cells from whole blood, laboratories require “man-made” machines, specialized preservatives and specialized anticoagulants. Special “man-made” machines and drugs are needed to further break down and separate white blood cells, platelets, and plasma from the red blood cells. Then, the laboratory can break plasma down to albumin, globulin and other natural blood parts. Blood fractions and components are not “man-made” but are all naturally found in the blood. Laboratories are just using these “specialized” techniques to separate the human blood into its natural different parts.
Seeing all these specialized “man-made” techniques are required to make banned and approved blood products that are not found in the bible, I am confused as to how the Watchtower justifies its position.
It is also wild that you can take every specialized fraction of a blood component separately and all at once (not humanly possible yet) but cannot take the whole component itself, even though all are separated by “man-made” machines and drugs.
As a person about to risk his life, do you find this position by the Watchtower somewhat odd?
Uncle_Onion and TD, I have taken great pains and time to provide you nice folks with an essay on natural whole blood transfers between two humans. The essay will also go in depth on how white blood cells are allowed to be transferred (transfused). I will be posting it shortly for all to see and use.
The essay may also help in your discussion with this person who is practicing theocratic war strategy with you. But as you know - some people have to rationalize to keep their Mother Organization in tact in their mind - like "Mother" couldn't be committing "culpable homicide" - could it?
hawk

Answer from a JW friend about blood

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