My wife and I walked out of the JW world when we were in our early twenties. This was in the mid 1960's. We had pioneered where the need was great and I held three positions in our small congregation: assistant presiding minister, ministry school servant and bible study servant (as we were called then) . The head guy was called the Presiding Minister and that's the way it was for the decade I associated. Even in the largest congregations the Presiding minister was firmly in charge. Years after we were out I heard through family members that Elders were now going to be appointed. And the Presiding role would be rotated. Up to the point we left I had never had a problem with any of the friends or minsterial servants ............my problem was the belief structure. Flash forward decades latter and when I joined this forum last October it seemed like every congregation had cliques, favoritism, power trippers, gossipers etc. And of course the shunning! Elders and elder's wives were mentioned in a negative light. What happened? Did the elder arrangement make things worse?
Did the organization become more mean spirited after the Elders were appointed?
by Giordano 21 Replies latest jw friends
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Mad Sweeney
I don't think it has anything to do with the change in how they are assigned/appointed/elected. I think it has to do with the structure of the organization today. There has been a brain drain for the last couple decades and it is really showing up now that the old-time elders are very elderly and the younger generation of elders that overlaps them lacks the social skill qualities of their predecessors.
Many of the best leaders, thinkers, and all-around good people just leave. The elders left behind are either old and jaded or they just suck at eldering.
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james_woods
At first, the elder arrangement was actually something of a liberalizing move.
In particular, there were a lot of congregations where the presiding overseer (congregation servant) pretty much ruled things with an iron fist.
The equalization of the elders, and the rotation of positions, promised to end this. Even the circuit overseer was at first said to be "just another elder".
Of course, it only lasted until the great fear of apostacy set in in the very late 70s and early 80s - at that point things got even worse than the pre-elder system.
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designs
My lifetime in the Org. spanned both ruling systems, can't say one was better or worse than the other, both were filled with Ass-holes of Elephant size proportions....
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Gayle
At first it seemed it would be a wonderful change. Previously, at Bethel level, Knorr was clearly the authoritarian ruler, some even joking or not joking calling him "pope."
But by late 70s, one visiting/friend Bethelite, privately told us, stated that they all, the GB, became "Knorrs."
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blondie
The control in each congregation resided in the "congregation servant" and second "assistant congregation servant" and a third one--field service overseer? or bible study overseer? They alone made up the judicial committee. All other baptized brothers were assistants to these 3, the school servant, the WT study servant, the book study servants, territory, literature, magazine, accounts "handlers."
The power base increased with more brothers being appointed "elders" and power did not reside in just 3 men. And with rotation it was not the same brother, the congregation servant. For awhile it helped.
As to gossip...gossip has always been and will always be.
As has been said that with the "Great Apostasy" of the 80's at Bethel, things tightened up and suspicion increased.
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james_woods
The control in each congregation resided in the "congregation servant" and second "assistant congregation servant" and a third one--field service overseer? or bible study overseer?
Bible study overseer, IIRC.
We should remember the point that it has been widely speculated that the whole GB/Elder arrangement was designed to limit the power of Franz after the death of Knorr, so in that sense was intended as a move toward a more "liberal democracy", if you will, as opposed to dictatorship.
It was the anxiety post 1975 and the great apostate scare that caused this to turn into the politburo.
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jean-luc picard
I was only a boy but I remember our Presiding Minister, a stalwart man who everyone respected.
By the end of my life sentence, elders were appointed, often by other family member elders.
It was possible to see power struggles between the different factions. I have witnessed at elders meetings
the clear sides taken between the different factions. Bodies of elders became large : 15 members becoming common. I could respect the honest heartedness of about 1/3 of them. The rest were just looking to be somebody: a big fish in a small pond.
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designs
Blondie-
Do you remember that first District Assembly in the 80s and those chilling talks on apostacy.
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blondie
designs, I remember more the chilling results in the congregations...quibbling about what was a "large" group socially, limiting informal pre-studies of the publications to one family or maybe two (10 people) but not 10 single people, each person counting as one family; but we could get 10 people together to pay cards!!! There were many rumors running through the congregations, fueled by the frightened words of Bethelites we knew. The assembly made us suspicious of everyone we knew or were in our congregation. Many were frightened that somehow the holy spirit was not working and evil ones were getting in.