Works- question for xtians

by LV101 13 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  LV101

  i'm confused. dr. chas. stanley says there's absolutely nothing we can do to earn life and it's all thru acceptance of the grace of the Christ and repenting of our sins. what is James talking about that we must do works --- faith without works is dead, etc. under the memorial talk posts someone even quoted the two scriptures and how Rahab was saved by works hiding the spies and how easier that is than being a slave of the w/tower.

  witnesses go door to door (and i guess there's nothing wrong with this and i realize mankind is suffering out there --- but read somewhere on here that scripture says DO NOT GO DOOR TO DOOR. also, by coming under JW's beliefs would not one be denying the Christ because one is submitting himself to man and not Christ thus denying what he offers. i'm confused about this works thing.
• 

  pirata

  There's a noticably different focus on this matter if you read Paul's letters and those of the other apostle's seperately.

  The Apostle Paul preached heavily about Grace and Faith.

  The other apostles still placed more emphasis on law and works as necessary for salvation

  The emphasis on works/faith is one of the noticeable differences. I personally think that difference comes from that fact that Paul was chosen by the Lord even though he was extremely opposed right up to his conversion. He hadn't done one good work up to that point (from a Christian point of view), but was still chosen to play a large part in developing early Christianity.

  Another example is that It was the Jewish apostles who decided on the additional "necessary things" to abstain from (including meat sacrificed to idols) [Acts 15:28,29] in order to keep the peace between the Jewish and Gentile Christians. Paul in 1 Cor 8 and 10, pointed out that abstaining from meat sacrificed to idols wasn't in fact necessary, but it was good to avoid so as not to stumble ones sensitve to the issue. Then in Revelation, written by Peter, he condemns one congregation for eating things sacrificed to idols.

  --------------------------

  The scripture about not going from door-to-door was referring to finding lodging. They were supposed to stay at the first home they were accepted at until they finished preaching in that city.
• 

  tec

  Faith without works is dead in two ways:

  1) (these are just my thoughts) Faith should inspire you to works. If you have faith in Christ, then you should be inspired to do the things that he taught (forgive, help those who ask for help or need it, don't judge, etc). If your faith does not inspire you to any deeds, then perhaps you should examine the strength of your faith?

  2) Faith without works does nothing to help your fellow man. So where is the love for your fellow man in that? That faith is dead in that nothing comes from it.

  Replace the word faith with love. Love without works is dead. See if that helps as a comparison.

  Tammy
• 

  snowbird

  Luke 10:7 "Stay at one home, taking your meals there, for a worker deserves three square meals. Don't move from house to house, looking for the best cook in town.

  Matthew 10: "When you enter a town or village, don't insist on staying in a luxury inn. Get a modest place with some modest people, and be content there until you leave.

  James 2:14 -17 Dear friends, do you think you'll get anywhere in this if you learn all the right words but never do anything? Does merely talking about faith indicate that a person really has it? For instance, you come upon an old friend dressed in rags and half-starved and say, "Good morning, friend! Be clothed in Christ! Be filled with the Holy Spirit!" and walk off without providing so much as a coat or a cup of soup—where does that get you? Isn't it obvious that God-talk without God-acts is outrageous nonsense?

  18 I can already hear one of you agreeing by saying, "Sounds good. You take care of the faith department, I'll handle the works department."

  Not so fast. You can no more show me your works apart from your faith than I can show you my faith apart from my works. Faith and works, works and faith, fit together hand in glove.

  19 -20 Do I hear you professing to believe in the one and only God, but then observe you complacently sitting back as if you had done something wonderful? That's just great. Demons do that, but what good does it do them? Use your heads! Do you suppose for a minute that you can cut faith and works in two and not end up with a corpse on your hands?

  21 -24 Wasn't our ancestor Abraham "made right with God by works" when he placed his son Isaac on the sacrificial altar? Isn't it obvious that faith and works are yoked partners, that faith expresses itself in works? That the works are "works of faith"? The full meaning of "believe" in the Scripture sentence, "Abraham believed God and was set right with God," includes his action. It's that mesh of believing and acting that got Abraham named "God's friend." Is it not evident that a person is made right with God not by a barren faith but by faith fruitful in works?

  25 -26 The same with Rahab, the Jericho harlot. Wasn't her action in hiding God's spies and helping them escape—that seamless unity of believing and doing—what counted with God? The very moment you separate body and spirit, you end up with a corpse. Separate faith and works and you get the same thing: a corpse. The Message Bible

  Truly, truly.

  Syl
• 

  pirata

  The author here: http://www.biblicaltheology.com/Research/CarterJ01.html

  presents the thought that Paul and James were thinking of the definition of 'works' in slightly different ways:

  Paul: Faith is complete trust in, and obedience to, Jesus Christ.

  Works are outward acts of ritual and adherence to a code to attain merit.

  James: Faith is belief in Jesus Christ, the resurrection, and salvation.

  Works are spontaneous acts of love that spring from the fruits of the Spirit.
• 

  pirata

  snowbird, what translation is that from? I'm starting to see the value in using paraphrased editions for to help get clarity of meaning.
• 

  snowbird

  That translation is The Message Bible.

  You are right, the Apostle Paul was talking about works of righteousness in order to attempt to justify ourselves with God, whereas James was speaking of works that spring from faith, looking after the downtrodden being the highest priority.

  Syl
• 

  tec

  You are right, the Apostle Paul was talking about works of righteousness in order to attempt to justify ourselves with God, whereas James was speaking of works that spring from faith, looking after the downtrodden being the highest priority.
• 

  AGuest

  Hmmmmm... didn't Christ said we WOULD do works, dear LV101 (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one)?

  Matthew 5:16 - "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

  John 14:12 - "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater [works] than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

  We demonstrate our faith IN him... by obeying his voice and directions... which leads us to imitate HIS works. Even so, none of this will make us "deserving," per se. For as he also said that we should say to ourselves, "Good for nothing servant; what you did is what you OUGHT to have done." What did he mean? That such "works" are what is REQUIRED... by the "universal" law established by the Most Holy One of Israel. What law? The Law... of LOVE. Which is why Christ did them: they fulfilled that law.

  Such that, because of HIS love... which love he learned from God... he has CHOSEN to reward "each one according to their works." But it wasn't because each one deserves such reward - it is because of his love FOR each one.

  I hope this helps, dear one, and, again, peace to you!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  GLTirebiter

  If you have faith, you will accept the grace God freely offers. If you accept His grace, that will show in your actions.

  Actions complete and complement faith. Faith that doesn't motivate good works is weak, incomplete faith: a faith lacking the love at the core of Christian teachings.

  "And though I have the power of prophecy, to penetrate all mysteries and knowledge, and though I have all the faith necessary to move mountains -- if I am without love, I am nothing." (1 Cor 13:2)