What's the Watchtower's current stance on...

by FifthOfNovember 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    We can know the creative "days" weren't 24 hours, even with the "evening and morning" parts, because the sun wasn't created until the third "day". Which begs the question, "evening and morning" where? Heaven maybe? How long are "days" to immortal beings? Also, since each creative "day" had its own tasks, were they even approximately the same length? Were they immediately following one another? Obviously God doesn't need daylight to see what he's doing or get a sore back or eye strain after working too long. Did he just create until he was done with certain things he wanted to do, call it a "day", then quit for a while?

    Maybe the galaxies and solar systems sat idle for untold billions of years while God decided what to do with it, like a collection of parts in a guy's garage. Eventually he knows he's going to make something with them, but he's not sure what just yet. Some time later, he decided to put living creatures on one of them and watched the dinosaurs for a few million years. Like an artist honing his craft, eventually he decides to scale everything down, add some variety, then he has a eureka moment. He decides to make some of these organic life forms intelligent, which he calls the last day. Then he sits back and figures he'd see how that played out, now that these little creatures who have the ability to feel emotions and think beyond the present are here.

    It's actually kind of interesting when you think about it: There was light from the first "day", but no sun or stars until the third. It appears at one time, God decided to get rid of ambient light in favor of overhead lighting.

  • heathen
  • heathen
    heathen

    on account my IE doesn't appear to work around here anymore I will repost. Ahem ..... who cares what they say , they aren't spirit inspired which means they are only talking out their own a$$. BTW there are many physics people that dispute the big bang . The bible does say a thousand years is a day .

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    The bible may say that a day could be a thousand years but then according to calculation, the day's or week's rest that God took is already over. It ended in 1975 according to the JW's so Jehovah is sleeping in on a Monday? His alarm didn't go off? If 1975 didn't match with the creationist days, something has to replace it.

    You can't take everything the Bible (or the JW) say literally or interpret it according to anyone's faith. Catholics will say it's a single 24 hour day, others will say it's a 1000 years. IF scientific PROOF and the Bible have to match up then the JW's are 'right' with their aeons of time per day of creation - it is PROVEN that the Universe and even the Earth and a lot of living tissue was alive more than 12,000 years ago regardless of whether you believe it's to be a 1000 years or not and regardless if you're an evolutionist or a creationist.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    The Watchtower a couple weeks ago accommodated a lengthy creation by suggesting that a creative day could be "eons".

    Not in the Feb Study edition they didn't. It doesn't contradict 7000 years.

    When they were talking about aeons they were talking about the period before the creative days began. They are always careful not to state anything that actually contradicts the 7000 year creative days that the oldies were taught.

    Any JW who says that they don't teach 7000 years should be challenged to produce an article that contradicts it. The last one I asked said that they don't teach that any more and hadn't since the creation book in the seventies. This is a typical JW responce when they don't want to own up to a belief that might seem silly to the potential recruit. I pointed out that it was questioned and confirmed in a QFR in the eighties. Red faced, she had to say she knew that. I asked how long she thought a creative day was ................ her answer? .............. 7000 years.

    WT Jan 1, 1987

    While the small group selected to be taken to heaven have had their sins forgiven from Pentecost 33 C.E. onward and thus already enjoy the Jubilee, the Scriptures show that the liberation for believing mankind will occur during Christ’s Millennial Reign. That will be when he applies to mankind the benefits of his ransom sacrifice. By the end of the Millennium, mankind will have been raised to human perfection, completely free from inherited sin and death. Having thus brought to an end the last enemy (death passed on from Adam), Christ will hand the Kingdom back to his Father at the end of the 49,000-year creative week.

  • heathen
    heathen

    no no the bible is not saying could be a thousand years the WTBTS says could be .....

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @Anony Mous:

    The bible may say that a day could be a thousand years but then according to calculation, the day's or week's rest that God took is already over.

    According to what "calculation" exactly? What "week's rest" do you mean? Or do you even know what you Jehovah's Witnesses teach?

    It ended in 1975 according to the JW's....

    What exactly are you saying "ended in 1975"? Please be specific.

    If 1975 didn't match with the creationist days, something has to replace it.

    What are these "creationist days" to which you refer? Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach and never have taught a thing about "creationist days, so I'd like to know what these "days" are, and what is is you meant here when you wrote that "if 1975 didn't match with the creationist days"

    You can't take everything the Bible (or the JW) say literally or interpret it according to anyone's faith.

    Wait! Hold on! While Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe and have never taught that everything that one reads in the Bible must be understood to be literal, two questions: (1) What role do you believe faith has with Jehovah's Witnesses' interpretation of the Bible? and (2) what role do you believe faith has with anyone else's (other than Jehovah's Witnesses') interpretation of the Bible?

    IF scientific PROOF and the Bible have to match up then the JW's are 'right' with their aeons of time per day of creation....

    How do you know that Jehovah's Witnesses are "right" about anything? What makes you say that Jehovah's Witnesses are right if science and what the Bible says "match up"?

    [I]t is PROVEN that the Universe and even the Earth and a lot of living tissue was alive more than 12,000 years ago regardless of whether you believe it's to be a 1000 years or not and regardless if you're an evolutionist or a creationist.

    What is "proven" now? That the universe was alive? That the earth was alive? That living things have been on the earth for more than 12,000 years? I'm thinking now about dinosaurs which were obviously here for much longer than 12,000 years, so from where does this "12,000 years ago" number come? Are you saying that "12,000 years ago" is the view of an evolutionist, the view of a creationist, or what exactly were you saying here?

    @djeggnog

  • heathen
    heathen

    keep in mind the WTBTS never says they are right about anything just simply that it's some sort of light that one is never to contradict unless they themselves give permission to do so . Very sneaky control mechanism

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    Oh please DJEggnog:

    According to what "calculation" exactly? What "week's rest" do you mean? Or do you even know what you Jehovah's Witnesses teach?

    By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work. Yes I do and quite honestly, I don't care anymore.

    If a creation day is 1000 years long according to some people here, by now we're at the end of a week. However Insight p545:

    Also, more than 4,000 years after the seventh day, or God’s rest day, commenced, Paul indicated that it was still in progress. At Hebrews 4:1-11 he referred to the earlier words of David ... And, since the seventh day has been continuing for thousands of years, it may reasonably be concluded that each of the six creative periods, or days, was at least thousands of years in length. (emphasis added)

    Even creationists do not agree among themselves in the details of the Biblical account but even if you take the longest time possible IT STILL DOESN'T ADD UP (see below).

    What exactly are you saying "ended in 1975"? Please be specific.

    The Watchtower of 15 October 1969, page 622: "More recently earnest researchers of the Holy Bible have made a recheck of its chronology. According to their calculations the six millenniums of mankind’s life on earth would end in the mid-seventies. Thus the seventh millennium from man’s creation by Jehovah God would begin within less than ten years ... Would not, then, the end of six millenniums of mankind’s laborious enslavement under Satan the Devil be the fitting time for Jehovah God to usher in a Sabbath millennium for all his human creatures? Yes, indeed!"

    What are these "creationist days" to which you refer? Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach and never have taught a thing about "creationist days, so I'd like to know what these "days" are, and what is is you meant here when you wrote that "if 1975 didn't match with the creationist days"

    No comment ;-) They do teach about the days of creation - you have to reject the whole Bible if you don't accept that.

    (1) What role do you believe faith has with Jehovah's Witnesses' interpretation of the Bible? and (2) what role do you believe faith has with anyone else's (other than Jehovah's Witnesses') interpretation of the Bible?

    Faith has nothing to do with the JW's interpretation of the Bible imho since their 'faith' changes every 6 months. Thus it cannot be faith that drives a JW's interpretation of the Bible since faith conveys the thought of confidence, trust, firm persuasion (also Insight book).

    Most other religions have faith that the Bible or at least the creation account has to be taken literal and some hold that scientific findings will redeem their view eventually.

    How do you know that Jehovah's Witnesses are "right" about anything? What makes you say that Jehovah's Witnesses are right if science and what the Bible says "match up"?

    I didn't say they were right but their viewpoint comes the closest to REALITY and PROOF.

    What is "proven" now? That the universe was alive? That the earth was alive? That living things have been on the earth for more than 12,000 years? I'm thinking now about dinosaurs which were obviously here for much longer than 12,000 years, so from where does this "12,000 years ago" number come? Are you saying that "12,000 years ago" is the view of an evolutionist, the view of a creationist, or what exactly were you saying here?

    12,000 years ago is the longest stretch of time from the viewpoint of most classical creationist and old-style JW's (now to Adam + 6 creation days of 1000 years). It is PROVEN by the laws of physics that light was existent before the first day of creation in which God ' created' light. According to JW's we are living in the 7th creation day and it's nearly the end (<1,000 years away) so I would say a creation day is 6,000 or 7,000 years long at most (again, the Insight book says, thousands of years - not millions). Even along this calculation, shit has been here longer than 7 * 7,000 years. If God created Adam at the end of the 6th day, how come the oldest homo sapiens remains are 42,000 years old?

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    What most JWs seem unable to comprend is that their own doctrine of a global flood 4,000 years ago requires a believe in rapid evolution. The majority of mankind, animals, insects, fish and birds were wiped out in the flood. (Actually, if there was a global flood all fish would have been wiped out when salt water oceans mixed with fresh water rain and lakes.) There were only a few types of animals, insects and birds on the ark (not aware of any aquariums). After leaving the ark these rapidly evolved into millions of species, or should I say "kinds", but only within their own kind.

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