In Spain we had 3 elders and one MS but then 2 elders left (Father and son) so the MS was made up to elder so then there were 2 elders and no MSs.
More Elders than MS's For First Time in WT History
by FrankWTower 29 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Mr. Falcon
being a MS blows massive cackenballz.
I want out so badly.
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undercover
But a lot of effort is being put into retaining the youth.
This is true... Thus the new "WT for dummies" edition. Now "Little Johnny Dub Can't Read" can keep up with the WT study using his first grade reader WT.
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WontLeave
I haven't understood the whole "ministerial servant" thing for a long time. Most who carry and adjust mics or run the sound mixer (usually poorly) aren't. The magazine counter is all but self-serve these days. I believe the only thing keeping the guys who are already performing the tasks from receiving the title is their hours.
That was one of my biggest irritations: When the elders don't like you, they'll restrict your "privileges" like public prayer, reading, leading the service group, etc., but you better believe they'll shove a toilet brush in your hand right-away-quick. Last time some obnoxious elder - one of those who put a target on my back - tried to get me to clean the bathroom, I told him "No, thanks" and walked away. He was noticeably upset by my lack of worshipful adoration for him and the gift of service he had offered.
And don't let them get you "reproved" or otherwise on the defense, because they'll have you licking their boots for as long as they can. That's why I never allowed them to "give" me any "privileges" in the first place. Nothing to "take away" and no satisfaction for them. No opportunity to "punish" me for not adhering to their self-important, man-made rules. I saw early on how that would play out and headed them off at the pass.
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Mad Sweeney
I don't trust your reliable source. No offense but I don't think this is anything new at all. I can't recall a time when it was normal to have more MS than Elders in a congregation and I can remember back around 40 years.
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Intel
Hehehehe....licking their boots....how true, how true.
No more licking of my boots or of others boots for me.....(stepped down 4 years ago and fadding since then). No privileges = no control over you! Simple as that...
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metatron
They have a problem and they know it. If a congregation has 7 elders, I can almost guarantee that 3 to 4 of them are nearly useless. You have guys who never really should have been appointed but it would be too upsetting to remove them. You have guys who are elders but don't want any real responsibility. You have guys who are too old and sick to accomplish much of anything.
As to MS's, there is always a large percentage of them who can never be appointed because their personalities clash with various elders or because no one can see them as elders.
Have you ever witnessed a heated debate in an elders meeting to avoid responsibilty? 'You have the time to be Secretary!' 'Oh, No I don't!' Or assigning the New Elder all the jobs Nobody else wants - like Theocratic Ministry School conductor.
I confronted a C.O. years ago and asked him, 'Where's the "B" team?'. He had no reply.
metatron
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blondie
How many congregations worldwide are there now, 110,000?
It would be hard to take one congregation and assess it worldwide.
I do know that in the 20 congregations in this area that there are 3x more elders than MS.
Young male jws are "flunking" out permanently as candidates (df or da or not enough time monthly). Many MS are barely qualified to be MS and have no desire to be elders. In some congregations there are 6 to 8 ex-elders, who stepped down and have no desire to return and be punched around.
The last go round in this circuit the CO gave a "pep" talk to the elders to grow more "spiritual" men. My husband was told that 25% of the elders dropped by the wayside every year.
The problem this brought up in the congregations here was that the elders had to do the demeaning MS duties. There wasn't anyone even to do the microphones and the CO turned down emphatically the suggestion that sisters do this. They did finally have to have sisters do the actual account work and have their elder husbands sign off and make the announcement.
Back in the day when congregations in many areas were made up of only women, they did all these duties with headcovering adjustments.
I was in one congregation in the 60's that was small and isolated. There was only one "elder" and a baptized teenage brother. A sister handled territory, literature, magazines, accounts, and "conducted" a book study (with head covering). Even currently, very small congregations have sisters handling sound, accounts, magazines, literature because there are not enough "qualified" baptized men.
I'm sure even now that there are congregations today that just lack males....but the ones that could have "qualified" men doing these things and they are not out of choice.......
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Anony Mous
The reliable source is the recent letter of March 31, 2011
Transscript:
Dear Brothers:
We are also writing on behalf of Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Thank you for your recent contributions to the:
*snip*
You will be interested to know that 791 Kingdom Ministry Schools were held within the United States branch between November 2010 and January 2011. Within just two months over 88,000 elders and 66,000 ministerial servants attended this school. The program was designed to deepen spirituality and help each carry out his work "in a fine manner."-1 Timothy 3:13.
Once again, we wish to express our thanks to you for your generous support of the worldwide work. May Jehovah continue to richly bless your hard work in his service.
Your brothers,
Watchtower B. <scribble>. Society
OF NEW YORK, INC.
Since all elders and ministerial servants were REQUIRED to go unless you were deadly sick I would say this count is accurate. The current qualifications for MS are (beyond the biblical): No recent child molesters, regular family study, regular meeting attendance, more than the national or congregational field service average - whichever is higher, no recent blemishes on your JW record. Most MS'es are going on to be elders now and most young people are either leaving or don't have the time or energy to put in many hours of service.
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Mad Sweeney
I don't doubt the count. I doubt that this is "for the first time in Watchtower history." There have been more elders than MS for as long as I can remember.