Visit from JW today

by Listener 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Listener
    Listener

    A JW knocked on my door this morning and she was with her young teenage son, who was dressed in tie, suit and shiny leather shoes. She has been in the religion for 18 years. We had a looong conversation and discussed many issues (briefly). It was really hard to get a word in as she was a good talker.

    She started out with her bible and read a scripture then went to a booklet, which was underlined and plenty of notes written in, then back and forth between both. She was very confident and so I let her go on for about 20 minutes. Then I started to explain how I knew what she was talking about and then the conversation was more specific.

    I told her that even though I had grown up as a JW and left, I had now been looking closer at the teachings. I said I was very dissapointed about the idea that the JWs were teaching that Jesus was not the mediator for the great crowd. She was very surprised and asked where I got that idea from because it simply wasn't true. I mentioned I had been doing a lot of research on the JW CD Rom. She asked how I obtained that as it was only available for JWs and otherwise illegal to obtain. I mentioned that my sisters were still in the religion. Anyway, as she was the one doing most of the talking she read out 1 Tim 2:5.6 which says how Jesus died for us all. Naturally I said that is how I personally fell about it but the JWs do not. She basically gave me a guarantee that this was absolutely not the case and that is why they even pray through Jesus. She said how she had been a witness for many years and she was now standing in front of me and swearing that Jesus was her mediator, as he was for all mankind. I mentioned how I had another guy who drops off the magazines to me and he came with whom I assumed was an elder once and he confirmed that this was definately the case - Jesus is mediator for the 144,000. She was taken aback but you could basically tell that there must have been some truth in what I was telling her. She said she would have to do some research on it.

    We seemed to go from one topic to another - as I said she was a great talker and seemed to go off in every direction, so I only brought up things when I saw the opportunity. I did express my disappointment in the GB and she went on about the F&DS so we had an interesting conversation there. I mentioned about the number of times Armageddon had been predicted, of course she explained 1975 as being interpretations of some JWs only and it was a weeding out time. I expressed my disappointment at the GB not having cleared up the problem (that they created) until after 1975. She said there was only one other time they had stated a year and that was 1914 - she knew this because they were so open about it in the proclaimers book and this only indicated that they knew that year was special anyway. I said that there were several other years before and after that time that were predicted and they could be found in earlier publications that were no longer available and that the proclaimers book had left out much of the early history. I could tell she didn't believe me. I mentioned that this was from the organisation that was supposedly appointed in 1914 but still setting dates and teaching much that is unrecognizable today.

    Naturally at one point she said that even though I had a bad experience with the JWs many years ago she thought I was just looking for things to criticize. I explained I was only looking for the correct viewpoints on matters and if I was to trust the GB once again I had to believe what they were telling.

    I also mentioned how it was disappointing that the Society had become a member of the UN, even if it was only the public information section for the purpose of research and they resigned immediately only when it had become public. Here again she didn't believe me and said she would have to ask another elder about it. I explained what she would be told but the fact that they did this in the first place was not good.

    She started explaining how only JWs did the door to door work and she got really defensive when I discussed issues about that. She told me how effective it was and I explained how she was using the wrong word to describe it.

    Anway, when she left she said 'I hope we meet again' and she said she might possibly call again if she found something interesting from her research that she wanted to share.

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    I had a similar call this week.

    It's interesting to be able to discuss JW issues from the other side of the fence. You did well. It'll be interesting if she calls back and what she comes back with.

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    I've been out for a while, but I'm still pretty sure that the teaching regarding Jesus mediatorship is as you rightly stated . . . only for the 144000. You could easily prove that anyway from the CD . . . that this is in fact WT teaching.

    After establishing that I'd ask her how she feels about that . . . that Jesus is NOT her mediator.

    Then you might like to introduce a few scriptures of your own that prove he IS the mediator for ALL mankind. Acts 4:12 and 1 Tim 2:5 are a good start.

    If you can stick to one point before you move on . . . you will avoid the mantle of "criticizer" . . . and plant that single doubt a little more deeply (it only takes one) . . . and she seems vulnerable on that point.

    You made an excellent fist of things however . . . well done to you . . . even if she doesn't come back.

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    she will be used on the next assembly as an experience of how to handle a possible apostate at the door...

    oz

  • wobble
    wobble

    She won't come back, she only has to look at her "Insight" book, vol 2 under Mediator and she will see you are correct as to the warped WT doctrine on this.

    I think the best way is not to let them jump around subject to subject, give 'em a bit of homework to do, the Babylonian King List from the WT publications say, working back from 539 where do they get to for the destruction of Jerusalem ? 587BCE.

    So where does that leave their prescious 1914 ? Of course they may present the WT's spurious arguments for the missing 20 years , but they are easily defeated.

    Make 'em do the work, and even if they do not come back they may begin to think, but I doubt that too.

    sorry to be so negative, you did do well, but combatting cult mind control is difficult, ask Steve Hassan.

  • Listener
    Listener

    I have been reading the advice from here saying not to let them sidetrack but she did have such a natural tendency to do that. She would get so sidetrack that she would say I can't remember what the point is I was trying to make so I would tell her. You just know what they are going to say.

    She made the point of how the org is a lot softer than what they were in the 70s and 80s and told me what the congregation was like. I pointed out that sounds good but it is not what is coming from the GB and they are in fact getting tougher from what I read. She was talking about others and how some let their children get baptized too young and how she felt that was wrong so I said she may enjoy the upcoming magazine directed to parents about this issue. On the GB being harsher I mentioned the July article that she will read that states appostates are mentally diseased. She said no it wouldn't but it might mention they are spiritually diseased. I said yes that is what I would have thought too but it actually says mentally diseased. Anyway she will remember some of our talk when she sees it in print instead of just reading it with blinkers on.

    I did some research on the UN issue the other day and came across the site -thirdwitness. This site makes a stand for JWs views but I was really interested to see the form that was sent out to the Society each year requiring them to list the individuals they wanted accredited for that year. Of course the form was blank but it is headed with the following -

    "Year .... Accreditation Form

    for representatives of Non-Governmental Organizations

    Associated with the

    United Nations Department of Public Information"

    What the JWs hate about this organization is that they declare that they will provide peace and security and yet they were not a 'member' but actually 'associated' with this. Hardly a library card membership for access.

  • jookbeard
    jookbeard

    I wonder why she got so touchy and sensitive about the CD ROM only for Dubs and illegal for anyone else? Illegal! err ever heard of the Internet? I wonder if every ex Dub could throw a $ into a pot for everytime we meet a Dub and a $ for everyone of them that has ever lied? I think there would be an awful lot of money in it.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Apparently the CD rom is restricted to active JWs only. As for getting it on the computer, you can but they are pirated versions.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Just a point, the WTS became an NGO associated with the UN. Organizations like the WTS cannot become members of the UN, only sovereign countries.

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    IMHO . . . something your JW believes mistakenly (in JW World) . . . that Christ is HER mediator . . . is her "weak spot"

    In my experience, most JW's find it easy to explain away the UN thing and say . . . "well we're not associated anymore"

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