@truthseeker:
She said that the end is so close what with all the earthquakes and brother Truthseeker, you need to come back to Jehovah otherwise you will die and so will your children....
I've read about people here having conversations like this, and until today I didn't really give it much thought, but to be told you and your children will die if we don't serve the Watchtower God is deeply disturbing.
If what the sister said proved to have been "deeply disturbing" to you, then maybe there's hope that you will return to Jehovah, for while it would have been a bit strong for her to have said the same thing that she did to you to someone that had not studied many of the same things that you have yourself studied in association with Jehovah's Witnesses, she knew that her words would put you in mind of the fact that what you had learned certainly be able to recall that God will certainly command his executional forces led by Christ Jesus to kill 'old man, young man, men, women and "little child" at Armageddon.
The Bible indicates that if a child isn't deemed "holy," except on account of the believing parent, so when God gives to Jesus the go-ahead to destroy "the heavens and the earth that are now," this "go-ahead" will mean the destruction of everyone on earth, who bear community responsibility because of bloodguilt on account of bloodshed committed against the knowledge of God in order to avenge the blood of those, like faithful Abel, whose lives were taken away from them innocent since Abel, and whose conscience has been cleansed before God. (1 Corinthians 7:14; Genesis 9:5, 6; Matthew 23:34, 35; 1 Peter 3:20, 21)
@Honesty:
It is deeply imbedded in their minds that you are not serving their god if you are not attending meetings.
This is correct. If one does not attend the congregational meetings, then one cannot be serving Jehovah. If Jehovah is the true God -- and He is! -- and there is no other God but Jehovah -- and there isn't! -- then how it is even possible that anyone can rightly be serving any God other than Jehovah? Our God requires that we become united in our worship of Him, and one person other here that worships his god as he pleases and that person other there that worships her god as she pleases cannot be worshipping the true God as He desires to be worshipped if they are not inciting others with whom they gather together for worship to love and fine works as He commands his true worshippers to do, which is just a part of what it means for us to make public declaration of our hope in connection with our worshipping God in spirit and in truth. (John 17:21; Hebrews 10:23-25; John 4:23, 24)
It is no easy task for some to become worshippers of Jehovah. Their upbringing could well have included certain events that have made them suspicious, even cynical as to the reasons they may be receiving counsel from those that studied the Bible with them or from one of the local elders as to some aspect of their life that has been observed, which may make their becoming united in their worship of God difficult, like, for example, their use of so many colorful profanities when they wish to express a point or two in communicating their opinion, whatever that opinion might be.
Becoming one of God's true worshippers can be hard work for such persons, who are accustomed to using an expletive like "damn" or "fuck" or who exclaim a "hell this!" or "shit no! to communicate their view about a particular thing, as in "That bitch is fucking crazy!" or "You gotta be shitting me!" or "That's a damn lie and, for saying that somebody needs to kick his/her ass!" feelings affirmation about something. In the part of the world that is alienated from God, such speech is acceptable, but while united worshippers of Jehovah have 'great freedom of speech in connection with Christ Jesus,' fine works on our part includes the use of "wholesome speech which cannot be condemned," and which gives no cause for anyone to speak ill of us as Christians that are unitedly worshipping God. (Philemon 8; Titus 2:7, 8)
Stripping off the old personality and clothing ourselves with the new personality by our taking in accurate knowledge of God means our putting away things like "wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk" away from us, divorcing these things from what was a part of our old personality, and means our putting up with "one another" and forgiving "one another" freely just as Jehovah freely forgave us our trespasses, which means that we must clothe ourselves with love. (Colossians 3:8-14) You cannot possibly be doing any of these things toward "one another" if you are not gathering together with other true worshippers of Jehovah at congregation meetings.
@JonathanH:
emotional blackmail at [its] finest.
In what way, may I ask, do you find meeting attendance with other true worshippers of Jehovah to be akin to emotional blackmail? What could Jehovah possibly gain from 'emotionally blackmailing' His own worshippers to gather together with other true worshippers at congregation meetings with the goal of inciting others to love and fine works? I don't understand your comment here.
@cult classic:
Basically that's all they've got. "Either do it our way or God is gonna kill you and your family."
You're right, it is disturbing.
You're right that all any of us have, not what Jehovah's Witnesses have, but what all mankind has, is what we all can read in the Bible, which is God's word to mankind. When one reads and studies this book, one cannot help becoming awestruck at God's foresight in His permitting our parents, Adam and Eve, who had been condemned to death, to have children, for if Jehovah had not done so, not one of us that is alive today would ever have been born, and I assume that you are aware of this, right? Now with Jehovah being who He is, the Giver and Source of Life, the One to whom we owe our very lives, He knew that we would inherit the same spirit of disobedience that our father, Adam, had, and He also knew that it was an impossibility for us to do things His way because we were all sinners at birth, because Adam was a manslayer, and as such became responsible for killing us all.
Later on, when man's blood was first shed by man, when Abel was murdered by Cain, his brother, Abel's death needed to be avenged by man. And note that despite His estrangement from Adam, God's wrath didn't at all affect his willingness to provide guidance to Adam's children, such as to Cain, when Jehovah gave advance warning to Cain about controlling his anger and allowing it to get the best of him. Cain murdered his brother anyway, but God allowed Cain to live and didn't kill Cain nor any member of his family. Life as represented by blood is sacred to God, and just as everyone that has ever been born are members of the human family, everyone on earth in Abel's day were members of the human family, and because not one of them could provide a ransom to God for the spilling of Abel's blood by Cain, God could have taken back "from the hand of each one who is his brother" their life for what Cain did. (Psalm 49:7-9; Genesis 9:5, 6)
But even before children were born to Adam and Eve, Jehovah took steps to make it possible for us to get a fresh start with a second Adam, another father that would adopt us as if we were his own children, someone by means of whom we would become beneficiaries of the kind of life -- the real life -- that Adam was unable to give us. Jehovah gave us His son, His only-begotten son, Jesus Christ, to be our Redeemer and our Eternal Father. (Psalm 36:9; 1 Corinthians 15:45; Romans 5:19; Ephesians 2:2; 1 Timothy 6:19)
As I've already pointed out here, Adam was a manslayer, and were it not for Jehovah's love for us while we were yet sinners in arranging for His only-begotten son, Jesus Christ, to be born as a human being to give his soul and provide for us a release as a ransom, a release that leads to the forgiveness of our sins and the redemption of the sins of the entire human family in satisfaction of, and in harmony with God's standard of justice, then none of mankind would have been born. This is what the Bible teaches.
It is the Bible that teaches how Jesus died for ungodly persons that were not fit to live -- sinners born with the same spirit of disobedience as had their father, but God foreknew that he would be providing to us a release from our captive state as slaves to sin's law, which law made us really no better than the unreasoning animals that are "born naturally to be caught and destroyed," and that release came by way of the ransom paid to God by the Lord Jesus Christ, which has given to many the hope of being totally set free from our sinful inclinations to disobey God, and separates us from the rest of mankind upon whom God's wrath remains, that is, provided we want to be set free from corruption and are willing to avail ourselves of this provision made possible to us by our putting faith in the New Covenant that was concluded over Jesus' blood.
By our exercising faith in Jesus Christ, who God made both Lord and Christ, and the Savior of the world, by our having faith in the value of Jesus' blood that was shed on our behalf, we can be declared righteous by God in our hope if this is what we want, if we want Jesus to be our savior. (Romans 3:24-26; 5:6-10; John 3:36; Colossians 1:14; 2 Peter 2:12; Romans 8:19-21)
It really isn't a matter of anyone 'doing things our way or God is gonna kill you and your family,' as if Jehovah's Witnesses are out dictating their own rules and conduct as commands to anyone, but, rather, it is a matter of our doing things God's way or "the wrath of God remains" upon us. It is "because we are members belonging to one another," having put away the old personality, we ought to be speaking the truth with our neighbor, not stealing or uttering rotten sayings to anyone. It is at congregation meetings that we learn how to 'put up with one another and forgive one another our shortcomings by clothing ourselves with love, a perfect bond of union.' (Ephesians 4:25, 28, 29)
But if we should be cahoots in some way with Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, on whose hands its religious and political organizations have the blood of those it sent out on religious crusades and battlefield missions, the leaders that are responsible for mass casualties that have resulted over thousands of years since the days of Nimrod, then God will see that we have a share in its sins for what they have done in their contempt for the sacredness of blood. (Revelation 18:24)
It is at these same congregation meetings we've learned that because each one of us have been entrusted with the good news of the kingdom, and we are obliged to share the good news with others and warn those not favorably disposed to hearing about the nearness of the end of this present system of things, for if we should fail to warn these to turn back from their wickedness and from their wicked way, their blood God shall ask back from us, for we ourselves will be bloodguilty before God and we will positively die along with them because we would not be clean from their blood, for we did not try to warn them as we were commanded by God, through Christ, to do. (Ezekiel 3:17-21; Acts 20:26, 27; Matthew 28:19, 20)
@aSphereisnotaCircle
Very disturbing,
When my G-ma threatens me in that manner I say, "if I believed that for one minute I would be doing everything the society says, just like I use to"
It shuts her right up. They think you are weak, and like to do naughty things, and that is the reason your not kowtowing to the society.
Your salvation has nothing to do with the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society and your suggesting here that your decision to go your own way is based upon your taking the view that what you are doing is balking against what things the Society has said and not balking against the things that, not the Society, but Jehovah's Witnesses have pointed out to you from the Bible makes you a weak-minded individual and utterly devoid in spirituality. Stop making excuses for your rebellious attitude and just man-up.
@chickpea:
reckoning back to what lured me in, i have no doubt she sincerely meant what she said....
You have to know that whatever one of Jehovah's Witnesses says from the Bible isn't personal, although what is said may, in fact, be personally directed at you. Jehovah's Witnesses are merely the messengers that were sent by the Lord Jesus Christ to bring the kingdom message to others. They are essentially substitutes for Christ that beseech others to become reconciled to God. (2 Corinthians 5:18-20)
@The Finger:
The Mayans seemed to think the end of the world is in 2012. Pastor Russell thought it was in 1914.
That's an ignorant thing for you to say about Pastor Russell since in the 1915 revision of The Time is at Hand, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2 (1889), "Study IV, The Times of the Gentiles," pp.76-78, Russell wrote the following:
In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D.: 1914; and that date will see the disintegration of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove Firstly, That at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will begin to assume control, and that it will then shortly be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions.
Secondly, It will prove that he whose right it is thus to take the dominion will then be present as earth's new Ruler; and not only so, but it will also prove that he will be present for a considerable period before that date; because the overthrow of these Gentile governments is directly caused by his dashing them to pieces as a potter's vessel (Psa. 2:9; Rev. 2:27), and establishing in their stead his own righteous government.
You're either mistaken or you are deliberately lying here, one.
Is predicting the end of the world important for a christian?
Not so much predicting the end of the world, but being ready in anticipation of its end is very important to a Christian. Jesus exhorted his followers to "keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming." (Matthew 24:42)
@Terra Incognita:
Truthseeker; I would suggest that next time you tell such a person the following:
"It is you who are losing your live(s), year by year, as long as you remain in that religion."
Then both Truthseeker and you will lose your lives, you, because of a very bad decision, and he, because of some very bad advice he got from you.
@journey-on:
JWs have absolutely no social grace whatsoever! They are hopeless and living in fear everyday.
That's not true about Jehovah's Witnesses at all! This would be your perception of how Jehovah's Witnesses are living, but I, myself, am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I do not live in fear of anyone. Believe me: We are not hopeless at all! Jehovah's Witnesses have a fear of displeasing God because we love our God, so we tend to avoid doing things that we know would not meet with God's approval, but this is godly fear, not a morbid fear that if we don't do a particular thing that God is going to "get" us, "zap" us or something along these lines.
You are the one that perceives these things, but Jehovah's Witnesses do not think in this way. For example, we are going to return to the store where the store clerk on duty made change as if we had handed her a $50 bill, when what we handed her was a $20 bill, not because we have a morbid fear that God is going to kill us dead, but because we love Jehovah, and, like our God, we have a love for righteousness, and we have no interest in being complicit in stealing.
I know exactly what they are thinking [every time] there is a major natural disaster. They are scared and happy at the same time. When I was in it, Armageddon was the first thing I thought of when something horrible was happening somewhere in the world. That old family friend of yours is to be pitied.
Jehovah Witnesses are never happy when something tragic happens to someone else. We will pray that the loss of life will not be as great following such tragic events, even though we know and expect that such tragedies will occur until Armageddon arrives.
When I finally decided I would rather die at Armageddon and lose whatever chance I might have of living in The New World rather than give THIS life I have NOW and the childhood of my kids over to an organization of men full of judgement, condemnation, rules, changing doctrine, dangerous doctrine, my fear and anxiety about it left me.
This was and has always been your choice.
@blondie:
Seems like many jws "serve" out of fear not love.
Well, like I said in other words to @journey-on, Jehovah's Witnesses are not serving God day and night in his spiritual temple out of morbid fear, but, rather, out of love. This is your perception of the reason what Jehovah's Witnesses you might know are serving God, but you're just speculating.
@WTWizard:
When?
They have been pulling this crap since 1874. Nothing happened then, nothing is going to happen now.
What if you're wrong? Then what?
As for the children, they are not going to have that card to play with me. So long as Jehovah doesn't let the opposite sex be physically attracted to me (and he has decided that it will be my whole damn life), I won't have any children for that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag TO destroy or threaten with destruction.
What are you saying here? That you're ugly? That you're gay? What? If you're destroyed at Armageddon, it will be your fault, because of actions you took or actions that you did not take that you ought to have taken or refused to take. The Bible indicates that there will be two (2) categories of people that will die at Armageddon: (1) Those who do not know God and (2) those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)
@nancy drew:
Who knows what might happen here there have been major exterminations in the past but whatever happens the witnesses [will] be in as much danger as everyone else all their field service won't amount to anything.
You had better hope you're right about field service, because it's quite obvious that you're only speculating here. As I stated above, if Jehovah's Witnesses should fail to warn these to turn back from their wickedness and from their wicked way, their blood God shall ask back from us, for we ourselves will be bloodguilty before God and we will positively die along with them because we would not be clean from their blood, for we did not try to warn them as we were commanded by God, through Christ, to do. (Ezekiel 3:17-21; Acts 20:26, 27; Matthew 28:19, 20) Jehovah's Witnesses actually get baptized so that we would thereby have a good conscience toward God in all respects. (1 Peter 3:21)
@cheerios:
i thought only the pagan gods of [canaan] killed children .. guess joohooby isnt much better
In the Bible, Jehovah was teaching Israel how He detestable He thought the gods of the nations and their false religious practices were, which served to emphasize to them the importance of true worship as he ordered the extermination of these neighboring nations by Israel at this time. But now God has overlooked the times of such ignorance among the nations, so that He is now telling mankind everywhere to repent and the Avenger of Death, Jesus Christ, along with his executional forces, will not feel sorry or show any mercy to "old man, young man and virgin and little child and women." They will all be destroyed by the Avenger of Death because of community bloodguilt. (Acts 17:30; Ezekiel 9:4-6)
@truthseekeriam:
I got that same crap a few weeks ago The elder actually told me if I thought the molestation of our daughter (by an ex elder) was heartbreaking just wait 15 years from now and see how much heartbreak we'll have when our children and future grandchildren are in the "world" living horrible lives!!
One of Jehovah's Witnesses -- an elder -- made a statement to you that you resented and so all Jehovah's Witnesses or all elders are guilty of agreeing with this statement because of this one elder? If one elder told you that he thinks you are a jerk and that you talk a little bit too much, would you conclude that the entire body of elders in that congregation felt the same way, even if the rest of these elders said nothing even close to what this one elder said to you?
What you write here makes no sense to me.
@the_raisin:
Like someone mentioned up above, that's emotional blackmail.
Yes, @JonathanH did say this above but he was talking about meeting attendance with other Jehovah's Witnesses. Like yours here, I didn't understand his comment either.
@umadevi:
I can only speak for myself. My son and I will definitely "die" if we were to continue being JW. No freedom at all.
How? I think you are exaggerating more than just a little bit here.
@djeggnog
