by Witness My Fury 492 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Eggnog, the prophesy says they would serve neb his son and his grandson. The total reign length of neb and co until cyrus is 66 years if i remember right, thats without factoring Jerusalems destruction in his 18/19th year.
So unless you're hiding some unseen babylonian tablets in your knickers that allow for any other consideration then there isnt even 70 years to play with in total let alone nearer 90 which would be required for a 70 period after Jerusalems destruction.
@djeggnog wrote:
The Bible clearly does speak of 70 years of servitude to King Nebuchadnezzar, but [since Jehoiachin was appointed as a vassal king for Babylon during Nebuchadnezzar's seventh regnal year until his vassalage ended in 617 BC, Jewish servitude didn't begin until 617 BC]. (Jeremiah 25:11) More importantly though, it was during Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year in 607 BC when Jerusalem was destroyed and Zedekiah, who had fled Jerusalem, was overtaken at Jericho, blinded and then led captive to Babylon.
@Mad Dawg wrote:
Here is what the verse says:
Jer 25:11And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
If you would not interpret Jeremiah 25:11 to make this verse say something it really doesn't say -- instead of substituting the words "the Jews" in place of the words "these nations" -- then it seems to me that would not have a basis for concluding, as you do here, that this verse is referring to 70 years of "Jewish servitude." The servitude of "these nations" in the Syria-Palestine region began in 618 BC, but "the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon" by the Jews during which "the land [would pay] off its sabbaths ... to fulfill seventy years" began -- and now I refer specifically to when "Jewish servitude" had been foretold by Jeremiah to begin -- in 607 BC. (Jeremiah 29:10; 2 Chronicles 36:21)
I have some questions:
Where in the verse you provided does it say "Nebuchadnezzar"?
Jeremiah 25:11 doesn't specifically say "Nebuchadnezzar," but refers to how the nations would "have to serve the king of Babylon" for 70 years.
Do you realize that Nebby wasn't the only king of Babylon?
Yes, but Jeremiah's prophecy doesn't specifically refer to King Nebuchadnezzar, but makes reference to "the king of Babylon," so my hope is that you are not here asserting that Jeremiah's prophecy is false because Nebuchadnezzar isn't specifically named in it. In the grand scheme of things, what difference does it make who it was that happened to king in Babylon over this 70-year period when it was God's will that the Jews spent 70 years in Babylon while the land paid off its sabbaths?
How do you know that Nebby's 7th regnal year was 618 [BC]?
Actually, I don't know 618 BC to be Nebuchadnezzar's seventh regnal year; this was a typo and I apologize. This is what I should have written: "The Bible clearly does speak of 70 years of servitude to King Nebuchadnezzar, but since Jehoiachin was appointed as a vassal king for Babylon during Nebuchadnezzar's seventh regnal year until his vassalage ended in 617 BC, Jewish servitude didn't begin until 617 BC. (Jeremiah 25:11)" But this is why I believe "Nebby's" seventh regnal year to have been 617 BC:
There is a tablet known as the "Nabunaid Chronicle" that gives the date for the fall of Babylon as being October 12/13, 539 BC (Julian), October 6/7, 539 BC (Gregorian), and it was some 16 days after Babylon's fall to the Medes and Persians that Cyrus entered through Babylon now-breached walls. Cyrus' first regnal year ran between March 17/18, 538 BC and March 4/5 537 BC, and it was during this first regnal year that Cyrus issued a decree that permitted the Jews to return to Jerusalem in order to rebuild the temple. Thus, when counting back the 70 years indicated by Jeremiah at 2 Chronicles 36:20-23 in which Jerusalem lie desolate, one arrives at the year 607 BC.
At 2 Kings 25:8, we are informed that it was during Nebuchadnezzar's 19th accession year, that is to say, his 18th regnal year, which would have been in the year 607 BC, that Jerusalem was destroyed and left desolate by Babylonian forces in order to fulfill "the devastations of Jerusalem" and the land of Judah "until the land had paid off its sabbaths ... seventy years." (Daniel 9:2; 2 Chronicles 36:21) This would mean that Nebuchadnezzar's 7th regnal year would be 617 BC , there being 11 years separating Nebuchadnezzar's 7th regnal year from his 18th regnal year.
A cuneiform inscription in the Babylonian Chronicle states that it was "in the seventh year, the month of Kislev, [that the king of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar)] mustered his troops, marched to Hatti-land, and encamped against the city of Judah and on the second day of the month of Adar he seized the city and captured [the king of Judah (Jehoiachin)]. He appointed there a king of his own choice, received its heavy tribute and sent (them) to Babylon."
At Jeremiah 46:2, we learn that it was during the fourth year of the reign of King Jehoiakim's reign that the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar (Nebuchadrezzar), was victorious over the king of Egypt, Pharaoh Necho; this was in the year 625 BC.
The next year, in 624 BC, Nebuchadnezzar officially ascended to the throne following his father's death, Nebuchadnezzar's first regnal year, which was his second accession year, and in his fifth regnal year as king, Nebuchadnezzar made Jehoiakim his vassal king; this was during Jehoiakim's eighth year in 620 BC. (2 Kings 24:1) However, Jehoiakim's rebellion resulted in both Jerusalem being besieged by Babylon and in Jehoiakim's death in 618 BC, so that his son, Jehoiachin, then became Babylon's vassal king during Nebuchadnezzar's seventh regnal year until Jehoiachin's vassalage ended after about three months in 617 BC. (2 Kings 24:11, 12)
Many people get this year wrong, not necessarily because they want Jehovah's Witnesses to be wrong about the year 607 BC (although some do!), but because they think for some reason unbeknownst to me that the Jewish prophet Jeremiah was in Babylon when Nebuchadnezzar besieged Jerusalem for the third time and dethroned Zedekiah in 607 BC, at which time Nebuchadnezzar had appointed Gedaliah in Judah as governor in Ab, "the fifth month" (2 Kings 25:22; Jeremiah 52:12-14), who only two months later was assassinated by Judean military chiefs, but Jeremiah had been in Egypt, and not in Jerusalem, since Gedaliah's assassination in Tishri, "the seventh month." (2 Kings 25:25)
Nebuchadnezzar had besieged Jerusalem in 617 BC, which marked the second time, at which time he has taken captive Jehoiachin, Jehoiakim's son, to Babylon. Now the first time that Nebuchadnezzar had besieged Jerusalem was in 620 BC during Jehoiakim's third year of his vassal kingship to Babylon over Judah. (Daniel 1:1)
It was then that Nebuchadnezzar made Jehoichin's uncle Mattaniah his vassal king, changing his name of Zedekiah. However, it was during the ninth year of Zedekiah's reign in 609 BC, Nebuchadnezzar's 16th regnal year, that Zedekiah rebelled against Babylon and attempted to ally Judah with Egypt against Babylon, so that the siege against Judah was momentarily halted due to the report regarding Egypt. (Jeremiah 37:5).
But in 607 BC, during Zedekiah's 11th year, Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year, his 19th accession year, Jerusalem was again besieged by Babylon, Jerusalem's wall was successfully breached, and Zedekiah's sons were all slaughtered as Zedekiah watched after which he himself was blinded, bound and led prisoner to Babylon where he died. (2 Kings 25:1, 2, 8-10)
Jeremiah 52:28-30 provides a list of the Jews that were taken into exile in Babylon: In 617 BC, during the 7th regnal year of Nebuchadnezzar (Nebuchadrezzar), 3,023; in 607 BC during his 18th regnal year, 832 "from Jerusalem"; in 602 BC during his 23rd regnal year by Nebuzaradan, the chief of the bodyguard, 745; so that the total number of Jews brought into exile came to be 4,600.
Evil-merodach went on to succeed Nebuchadnezzar to the throne in 581 BC. In the year of his becoming king, Evil-merodach released Jehoiachin the king of Judah from the house of detention during the 37th year of Jehoiachin’s exile in Babylon. Evil-merodach granted him a position of favor above all the other kings who were in captivity in Babylon. (2 Kings 25:27-30; Jeremiah 52:31-34)
According to the Encyclopedia Americana, Nebuchadnezzar (Nebuchadrezzar) was the king of Babylon from 625/624 BC for 43 years, and was succeeded by his oldest son, Evil-Merodach, as king of Babylon from 581 BC for two years. Evil-Merodach was assassinated by Neriglissar, his brother-in-law, who succeeded him as king of Babylon from 579 BC for four years, when he died as his son Labashi-Marduk succeeded him as king of Babylon in 575 BC for three months when he was assassinated. Nabonidus, who, like Neriglissar, was one of Nebuchadnezzar's sons-in-law, became the king of Babylon after Labashi-Marduk's assassination in 575/574 BC for 35 years along with his son Belshazzar, the crown prince, who as coregent in Babylon was also viewed as king, while Nabonidus primarily lived in Arabia. Cyrus overthrow of Babylon in 539 BC is what brought the Babylonian Dynasty to an end.
In his Antiquities of the Jews, Book X, chap. 9, par. 7, Josephus indicates that it was in Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year, after Gedaliah's assassination, when ""all Judea and Jerusalem, and the temple, continued to be a desert for seventy years."
The cuneiform tablet entitled "Strassmaier, Cyrus No. 11" mentions Cyrus' first regnal year. Cyrus first regnal year is calculated as beginning on March 17/18, 538 BC and ending on March 4/5, 537 BC, meaning that Cyrus' second regnal year began on March 5/6, 537 BC, so that Cyrus' decree must have issued before March 5/6, 537 BC, either late in the year 538 BC or early in 537 BC. It was Cyrus' first regnal year in which he issued his decree to permit the Jews to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple. (Ezra 1:1)
@Witness My Fury wrote:
What does the bible actually say...?
@djeggnog wrote:
The Bible clearly does speak of 70 years of servitude to King Nebuchadnezzar, but Jewish servitude didn't begin until Nebuchadnezzar's seventh regnal year in 618 BC. (Jeremiah 25:11) More importantly though, it was during Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year in 607 BC when Jerusalem was destroyed and Zedekiah, who had fled Jerusalem, was overtaken at Jericho, blinded and then led captive to Babylon.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
Nope, the Bible doesn't actually say that. Anyway, King Neb didn't reign 70 years.
You're right; Jeremiah 25:11 doesn't specifically say "Nebuchadnezzar," but refers to how the nations would "have to serve the king of Babylon" for 70 years.
@djeggnog wrote:
The 587 BC advocates cannot reconcile 587 BC with 539 BC, because it isn't possible to find 70 years between 587 BC and 539 BC, for one would be 22 years shy of fulfilling those 70 years that God declared the land must lay desolate to pay off its sabbaths.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
God didn't declare the land must lay desolate for 70 years to pay off its sabbaths. The Bible doesn't actually say that either.
Sure it does.
2 Chronicles 36:20-23:
"Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.
@djeggnog wrote:
The next year, in 624 BC, Nebuchadnezzar officially ascended to the throne following his father's death, Nebuchadnezzar's first regnal year, which was his second accession year, and in his fourth regnal year as king, Nebuchadnezzar made Jehoiakim his vassal king; this was during Jehoiakim's [eighth] year in 620 BC. However, Jehoiakim's rebellion resulted in Jerusalem being besieged by Babylon and in Jehoiakim's death in 618 BC, so that his son, Jehoiachin, became Babylon's vassal king during Nebuchadnezzar's seventh regnal year until Jehoiachin's vassalage ended after about three months in Nisan 617 BC.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
The Bible actually indicates Jehoiakim was vassal before that, i.e. in his third year (Dan. 1:1,2).
Yes, he was, but not for Babylon, for it was during the eighth year of his reign as king of Judah that he became Babylon's vassal king. Maybe you assumed something that Daniel did not mean when he referred to Jehoiakim's "third year" at Daniel 1:1, 2, I don't know, but while Jehoiakim had been enthroned for a total of 11 years, Jehoiakim had been a vassal king for Egypt at the time Nebuchadnezzar had defeated Pharaoh Necho in 625 BC. (Jeremiah 46:2) Jehoiakim became a vassal king for Babylon and then went on to revolt against Babylon in 620 BC after a three-year vassalage, which is to what "in the third year of his kingship of Jehoiakim the king of Judah" refers at Daniel 1:1.
@djeggnog wrote:
During these two months, Gedaliah was assassinated, so that the men that were left over in the province of Judah were now in fear of Babylon and eventually decided to flee the land of Judah to go to Egypt, dragging Jeremiah and his secretary with them. This last occurred during the seventh lunar month of Tishri, as the festival of ingathering had approached, but there was no longer a temple in Jerusalem, and now there were no people in the land nor any domestic animal. The "seven times" of Daniel's prophecy had now begun! (Daniel 4:25)
@AnnOMaly wrote:
The Bible actually says there were inhabitants living in Jerusalem's ruins after that time (Ezek. 33:21-24).
No, it doesn't. You seem to be arguing just to be arguing with me, for none of the arguments you make here have any merit. Here's what the Bible does say about the desolated state of Jerusalem and the land of Judah:
Jeremiah 33:10:
"'This is what Jehovah has said, ‘In this place that you people will be saying is waste without man and without domestic animal, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem that are desolated without man and without inhabitant and without domestic animal....''
2 Chronicles 36:20, 21:
Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.
@djeggnog wrote:
Many people get this year wrong, not necessarily because they want Jehovah's Witnesses to be wrong about the year 607 BC (although some do!), but because they think for some reason unbeknownst to me that the Jewish prophet Jeremiah was in Babylon when Nebuchadnezzar besieged Jerusalem for the third time and dethroned Zedekiah in 607 BC, at which time Nebuchadnezzar had appointed Gedaliah in Judah as governor in Ab, "the fifth month" (2 Kings 25:22; Jeremiah 52:12-14), who only two months later was assassinated by Judean military chiefs, but Jeremiah had been in Egypt, and not in Jerusalem, since Gedaliah's assassination in Tishri, "the seventh month." (2 Kings 25:25) Nebuchadnezzar had besieged Jerusalem in 617 BC, which marked the second time, at which time he has taken captive Jehoiachin, Jehoiakim's son, to Babylon. Now the first time that Nebuchadnezzar had besieged Jerusalem was in 620 BC during Jehoiakim's third year of his vassal kingship to Babylon over Judah.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
This isn't even wrong. This is just gobble-de-gook. (Have you been brainstorming with Larsinger?)
You are right. I've both proofread and corrected those typos in this message that made what I had written in my previous message gobbledygook.
@Witness My Fury:
Eggnog, the prophesy says they would serve neb his son and his grandson.
No, it doesn't. Jeremiah 25:11 says:
"And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years."
There were more than just Nebuchadnezzar, his son, Evil-Merodach, and his grandson, Belshazzar, that ruled as kings in Babylon. The prophecy says "shall serve the king of Babylon." What's your point?
The total reign length of neb and co until cyrus is 66 years if i remember right, thats without factoring Jerusalems destruction in his 18/19th year.
According to the Encyclopedia Americana, Nebuchadnezzar (Nebuchadrezzar) was the king of Babylon from 625/624 BC for 43 years, and was succeeded by his oldest son, Evil-Merodach, as king of Babylon from 581 BC for two years. Evil-Merodach was assassinated by Neriglissar, his brother-in-law, who succeeded him as king of Babylon from 579 BC for four years, when he died as his son Labashi-Marduk succeeded him as king of Babylon in 575 BC for three months when he was assassinated. Nabonidus, who, like Neriglissar, was one of Nebuchadnezzar's sons-in-law, became the king of Babylon after Labashi-Marduk's assassination in 575/574 BC for 35 years along with his son Belshazzar, the crown prince, who as coregent in Babylon was also viewed as king, while Nabonidus primarily lived in Arabia. Cyrus overthrow of Babylon in 539 BC is what brought the Babylonian Dynasty to an end.
So unless you're hiding some unseen babylonian tablets in your knickers that allow for any other consideration then there isnt even 70 years to play with in total let alone nearer 90 which would be required for a 70 period after Jerusalems destruction.
From Nebuchadnezzar's first regnal year in 625 BC to Nabonidus/Belshazzar in 539 BC, there are 86 years, and counting from Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year in 607 BC to Nabonidus/Belshazzar in 539 BC, there are 68 years. When Cyrus issued a decree during his first regnal year in 538 BC to permit the Jews to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple there, the Jews had arrived there in 537 BC and had begun offering sacrifices at the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem in Tishri, "the seventh month." (Ezra 1:1-4; 3:1-6)
While you may think you do, I submit that you really do not know what Scripture says on these things; you merely repeat things here that you have may heard others say and/or have read things in the Bible without any appreciation for the substance of what it was you were reading. I have here used the Bible to prove that the year 607 BC is rock solid and isn't wrong.
@djeggnog
Yes, he was, but not for Babylon, for it was during the eighth year of his reign as king of Judah that he became Babylon's vassal king.
Where in the Bible do you get that Jehoiakim became Babylon's vassal in his 8th year?
Maybe you assumed something that Daniel did not mean when he referred to Jehoiakim's "third year" at Daniel 1:1, 2
I assumed that when Daniel said "third year of the kingship of of Jehoiakim", he meant exactly that.
No, it doesn't. You seem to be arguing just to be arguing with me, for none of the arguments you make here have any merit.
2 Chron. 36:20,21 does nothing to disprove my specific objection, and Jer. 33:10 is pre-destruction anyway. Ezek. 33:21-24 is post-destruction - even post-Gedaliah-assassination! What does Ezek. 33:21-24 say? If you read it in its context, you'll see that my argument does indeed have merit and can't be dismissed so easily.
I've both proofread and corrected those typos in this message that made what I had written in my previous message gobbledygook.
The typos weren't the problem. I'm afraid it's still scrambled nonsense. 'Most people get the year wrong because they think Jeremiah was in Babylon'? What?! And out of curiosity, can you explain how Jehoiakim came to be Nebuchadnezzar's vassal BEFORE he invaded the land and besieged Jerusalem for the first time?
[Response to Witness My Fury] According to the Encyclopedia Americana, Nebuchadnezzar (Nebuchadrezzar) was the king of Babylon from 625/624 BC for 43 years, and was succeeded by his oldest son, Evil-Merodach, as king of Babylon from 581 BC for two years. Evil-Merodach was assassinated by Neriglissar, his brother-in-law, who succeeded him as king of Babylon from 579 BC for four years, when he died as his son Labashi-Marduk succeeded him as king of Babylon in 575 BC for three months when he was assassinated. ...
What a whopper! The Encyclopedia Americana does NOT give those regnal dates. Bad eggnog! 
See photo here - http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/194806/1/Library-Visit-2-607-BCE-vs-587-BCE-With-Pictures
I messed up the link above. Try this instead - http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/194806/1/Library-Visit-2-607-BCE-vs-587-BCE-With-Pictures
And I neglected to respond to this:
[Ann formerly] God didn't declare the land must lay desolate for 70 years to pay off its sabbaths. The Bible doesn't actually say that either.
[djeggnog] Sure it does.
2 Chronicles 36:20-23:
"Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; to fulfill Jehovah's word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.
Uh uh. The Chronicler specifically cites Jeremiah's prophecy and alludes to another one in Leviticus. These three passages have to harmonize. Where did Jeremiah ever declare the land would lie desolate for a period of 70 years? Where does the book of Leviticus declare how long the land would pay off its sabbaths? Chapter and verse please.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
The Bible actually indicates Jehoiakim was vassal before that, i.e. in his third year (Dan. 1:1,2).
@djeggnog wrote:
Yes, he was, but not for Babylon, for it was during the eighth year of his reign as king of Judah that he became Babylon's vassal king. Maybe you assumed something that Daniel did not mean when he referred to Jehoiakim's "third year" at Daniel 1:1, 2, I don't know, but while Jehoiakim had been enthroned for a total of 11 years, Jehoiakim had been a vassal king for Egypt at the time Nebuchadnezzar had defeated Pharaoh Necho in 625 BC. (Jeremiah 46:2) Jehoiakim became a vassal king for Babylon and then went on to revolt against Babylon in 620 BC after a three-year vassalage, which is to what "in the third year of his kingship of Jehoiakim the king of Judah" refers at Daniel 1:1.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
Where in the Bible do you get that Jehoiakim became Babylon's vassal in his 8th year?
2 Kings 24:12:
"At length Je·hoi´a·chin the king of Judah went out to the king of Babylon, he with his mother and his servants and his princes and his court officials; and the king of Babylon got to take him in the eighth year of his being king."
You know what, @AnnOMaly? Your asking me this particular question makes it rather difficult for me to take what you are now saying seriously. Like I said in my previous message, I believe you are arguing with me just because you can do so. In this thread, my intent was to use the Bible "(and some common sense)" to prove that 607 BC is the year when Jerusalem and the land of Judah became desolate, just as the prophet Jeremiah prophesied at , and I believe I had done just that. What you're doing now is rather lame and I believe it is because you have your mind already made up as to the Bible being wrong, and I'm willing to accept this about you.
I assumed that when Daniel said "third year of the kingship of of Jehoiakim", he meant exactly that.
So you're being tough now! You're not tough! What you are is wrong.
2 Chron. 36:20,21 does nothing to disprove my specific objection, and Jer. 33:10 is pre-destruction anyway. Ezek. 33:21-24 is post-destruction - even post-Gedaliah-assassination! What does Ezek. 33:21-24 say? If you read it in its context, you'll see that my argument does indeed have merit and can't be dismissed so easily.
Now you're repeating yourself after I've already responded to this objection of yours, so you're being insulting, too! I'm going to repeat what it was you stated in your previous message and how I responded to it:
@djeggnog wrote:
During these two months, Gedaliah was assassinated, so that the men that were left over in the province of Judah were now in fear of Babylon and eventually decided to flee the land of Judah to go to Egypt, dragging Jeremiah and his secretary with them. This last occurred during the seventh lunar month of Tishri, as the festival of ingathering had approached, but there was no longer a temple in Jerusalem, and now there were no people in the land nor any domestic animal. The "seven times" of Daniel's prophecy had now begun! (Daniel 4:25)
@AnnOMaly wrote:
The Bible actually says there were inhabitants living in Jerusalem's ruins after that time (Ezek. 33:21-24).
@djeggnog wrote:
No, it doesn't. You seem to be arguing just to be arguing with me, for none of the arguments you make here have any merit. Here's what the Bible does say about the desolated state of Jerusalem and the land of Judah:
Jeremiah 33:10:
"'This is what Jehovah has said, ‘In this place that you people will be saying is waste without man and without domestic animal, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem that are desolated without man and without inhabitant and without domestic animal....''
2 Chronicles 36:20, 21:
Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.
@djeggnog wrote:
I've both proofread and corrected those typos in this message that made what I had written in my previous message gobbledygook.
@AnnOMaly wrote:
The typos weren't the problem. I'm afraid it's still scrambled nonsense. 'Most people get the year wrong because they think Jeremiah was in Babylon'? What?!
Perhaps instead of "most people," I could have written "some people," but I do not think this would have been received any differently by you. You just want to argue with me, even though your arguments are without merit.
And out of curiosity, can you explain how Jehoiakim came to be Nebuchadnezzar's vassal BEFORE he invaded the land and besieged Jerusalem for the first time?
I'm done with this.
@djeggnog
[Ann formerly] Where in the Bible do you get that Jehoiakim became Babylon's vassal in his 8th year?
[eggnog] 2 Kings 24:12:
"At length Je·hoi´a·chin the king of Judah went out to the king of Babylon, he with his mother and his servants and his princes and his court officials; and the king of Babylon got to take him in the eighth year of his being king."
ROFL!
A) You've referred me to a passage about Jehoiachin, not Jehoiakim.
B) The "eighth year of his being king" refers to the "king of Babylon," ya doofus!
In the face of being unable to rebut my arguments, the rest of your answer is just you hurling your toys out your playpen in temper. Hilarious!
Eggy old chap its not a crime to hold your hands up, admit you were wrong, I have had to do this so many times since I arrived at this site, mostly no one but me was aware, sometimes here publicly.Initially when I first lurked here I kind of looked at your posts and hoped you would be able to rebut and defend theWTS I seceretly hoped you had the answers and i would not have to confront the inevitable fallout of having to face up to the fact I had been duped, and its not an easy place to be, but this is where we are
607 has been beaten to death.
It has been shown over and over and over to be wrong.
It has been shown via the bible, via history, via astronomy, via archeology.
Over and over.
If any JW wants to still grasp at it because of 1914 then let them.
Just one more man-made doctrine of theirs that shows them to NOT be preaching the Gospel of Christ.
DJ said in his post 375:
The Bible clearly does speak of 70 years of servitude to King Nebuchadnezzar, but Jewish servitude didn't begin until Nebuchadnezzar's seventh regnal year in 618 BC. (Jeremiah 25:11)
DJ said in his post 378:
Jeremiah 25:11 doesn't specifically say "Nebuchadnezzar," but refers to how the nations would "have to serve the king of Babylon" for 70 years.
DJ says one paragraph later in post 378:
This is what I should have written: "The Bible clearly does speak of 70 years of servitude to King Nebuchadnezzar, …"
Then in the next paragraph of post 378…
There is a tablet known as the "Nabunaid Chronicle" that gives the date for the fall of Babylon as being October 12/13, 539 BC…
I have some questions here:
Does the Bible speak clearly of the nations serving Nebby or not?
· If yes, please show it clearly. There is nothing clear about the walls of text you post.
Why are you referring to a Babylonian tablet to establish the date? You have said on other threads that you could establish the date using only the Bible.
If the authority of the GB rests on them being "chosen" in 1919, which depends on the "prophecy" of 1914, which in turn rests solely on a Babylonian tablet; then doesn't that mean that your entire religion rests on Babylonian writings - not the Bible?
Bear in mind that I don't question if Jeremiah's prophecy was fulfilled. I question if it were fulfilled in the manner that the GB says it was. Without the supposed "double fulfillment", which is not required by the text, then it doesn't matter if Jerusalem fell in 597, 617, or 627.
I'm done with this.
@djeggnog
Wow, Eggnog acknowledging something thats being beyond him. Now I know Harold Camping's calculations are accurate. 5/21, its a wrap!!!
