I also have questions about field service...

by losthobbit 22 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • losthobbit
    losthobbit

    I never was a JW, so please excuse my lack of knowledge here...

    After reading some posts on this forum it seems I've realized that I don't fully understand what field service is. It seems that field service is the following (and please correct me):

    - Something JW's have to do for a specific number of hours per month

    - Can be any of the following: handing out pamphlets / flyers, phoning, writing, debating, inviting to bible study

    So, a couple of questions:

    - Does this mean that JW's don't actually have to go door to door, and could theoretically write a mass spam emailing program which they run for a specific number of hours per month.

    - Have you ever gone door to door, while not actually believing the teachings of the organization? And, if so, did you still debate with people, or did you simply avoid questions, and say "I don't know", or "Maybe"? I'm particularly curious about this, because I wonder if there's a way to tell, when a JW comes around what their actual level of belief is... like, is there a question that you would have tried to avoid?

    - If JW's have to do field service for a couple of hours at a time, would they welcome a non-religious chat... "So, how's this weather we're having today?"... or would they prefer... "Thank you, bye bye", so they can move on to the next door and hand out another flyer?

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Shit I hate this compatability issue!!!!

    Field service is any preaching activity.

    Door to door is the usual.

    Informal is where you strike up conversation with people in everyday situations.

    Telephone witnessing is undertaken by those who are housebound, and used where people can not be contacted by D2D work, eg. people living in secure apartment blocks.

    Internet and email witnessing are NOT approved by the society.

    There is no minimum time requirement but if you do less than the national average, you are seen as weak and will not be given "privileges".

    Other FS would include return visits and bible studies.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    There is not a set hours of month required to be a JW in good standing. Only the special classes (pioneer, auxiliary pioneer, special pioneer) have set hour requirements. For the others, the general rule is for a male to be considered as a possible elder or ministerial servant he should get double-digit hours on average.

    But yes, one can count their time however they like. It is on an honor system. But if you are never seen going door to door, your are not what they call "visible" in the ministry and that is a negative mark on your reputation.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    - Something JW's have to do for a specific number of hours per month
    Back in the 1970's or so, JW's did have a minimum. I believe it was 10 hours per month. Even though that was done away with, they still gave everyone a hard time in many congregations if they put in just an hour or a few hours. Nowadays, they still want more than a few hours, but their main focus is that the members put in at least one hour to be counted as a "regular" publisher. Many older and infirm members are allowed to put in as little as 15 minutes a month.

    - Can be any of the following: handing out pamphlets / flyers, phoning, writing, debating, inviting to bible study

    I don't know what you mean by "debating." They have had all kinds of rules on "when your time starts and stops" but have never been very specific on what each individual calls "field service" but let each person determine whether their activity is "counted." But yes, they could be ringing bells with pamphlets or magazines in hand or phoning or writing. They could be making return visits or specifically studying Watchtower literature with someone (they could be doing that with their own children) or standing/sitting on a corner to hand out mags. They might be going from laundromats to bus stations to doctor's waiting rooms just to place magazines down and count their travel time to/from.

    So, a couple of questions:

    - Does this mean that JW's don't actually have to go door to door, and could theoretically write a mass spam emailing program which they run for a specific number of hours per month.

    Technically, yes, but not really. They are trained not to do any mass emailing. That's too efficient and totally uneffective. If they write letters to mail, they write a single letter at a time and supposedly give prayerful thought to that individual letter (even if it is to a total stranger) allowing the spirit to help them say what may be needed. The reasons for that- stamps are expensive. To the average JW, the time spent is the most important part. S/he doesn't want to rack up many letters with many stamps. Some try to be more efficient and knock a letter out in less than ten minutes and start the next one. Others take awhile and might get 4 per hour.

    I would assume similarly with emailing people. If someone was contacting people via email, they wouldn't just want to email anybody anywhere with some mass message. That's not effective at all. If JW's are emailing people, they would generally know those people and thoughtfully consider what to say to that person. If WTS were to comment on such an effort, they would be negative because it doesn't "sell" any literature. Letter writing is to people within the territory who could actually be visited if they show interest, email really wouldn't have such an equivalent.

    - Have you ever gone door to door, while not actually believing the teachings of the organization? And, if so, did you still debate with people, or did you simply avoid questions, and say "I don't know", or "Maybe"? I'm particularly curious about this, because I wonder if there's a way to tell, when a JW comes around what their actual level of belief is... like, is there a question that you would have tried to avoid?

    Toward the end of my "active" JW time, I did still put in a little time. I did not "debate" anyone by then. I simply tried to leave a piece of literature and said "Thank you" to their responses positive or negative. You really cannot gauge beliefs by such, as most JW's are barely interested in doing this- they are simply putting in time. You will get some firecrackers at your door who really really want to convert/help you. Try this- Ask questions about shunning or "What is the overlap generation?" or something like that to see if they want to engage in conversation or just get out of there.

    - If JW's have to do field service for a couple of hours at a time, would they welcome a non-religious chat... "So, how's this weather we're having today?"... or would they prefer... "Thank you, bye bye", so they can move on to the next door and hand out another flyer?

    All their training has been to be "conversational." If the "householder" wants to be conversational, they would appreciate such. But you are causing yourself to be viewed as a very interested householder that would be called on over and over again on "return visits." Better to ask difficult questions or say "Get off my porch and put me on your 'Do Not Call' list."

  • dozy
    dozy

    " If JW's have to do field service for a couple of hours at a time, would they welcome a non-religious chat... "So, how's this weather we're having today?"... or would they prefer... "Thank you, bye bye", so they can move on to the next door and hand out another flyer? "

    Bear in mind that it is often very difficult to get any kind of conversation , so if a householder is willing to chat about pretty much anything , then most JWs would be happy to stand and talk. They can always try to turn the conversation to "spiritual things" or leave a magazine at the end of the call.

  • Poztate
    Poztate
    Back in the 1970's or so, JW's did have a minimum. I believe it was 10 hours per month.

    In the 50's and early 60's at least the hall had a huge chart that they toted on stage once a month. They then compared the local results for FS with the "national Average" The goal was 10 hours FS but quota's were also given for "back calls" and book studies.

    If the congregation was below "national average" the publishers would be berated aka encouraged to perform better because they were slacking off. It was and is now a works based organization...empty works that is..

  • B_Deserter
    B_Deserter

    - Does this mean that JW's don't actually have to go door to door, and c ould theoretically write a mass spam emailing program which they run for a specific number of hours per month.

    I doubt it. Although "alternative witnessing" is generally applauded, the door-to-door method is the bread and butter, and there is an informal expectation that all witnesses get at least some of their time in that way. I remember hearing several talks that stressed d2d as the primary method every JW should be using. I think emailing would be a bit controversial. The concept of time spent is generally accepted to mean the time one actually puts in, not the time a program of theirs runs while they do something else. The organization gets really skittish when it comes to the internet and email, and have come out and said that JWs shouldn't witness to people online through websites or chat rooms. I think that would naturally extend to email spamming as well.

    - Have you ever gone door to door, while not actually believing the teachings of the organization? And, if so, did you still debate with people, or did you simply avoid questions, and say "I don't know", or "Maybe"? I'm particularly curious about this, because I wonder if there's a way to tell, when a JW comes around what their actual level of belief is... like, is there a question that you would have tried to avoid?

    I think I did once or twice, but even when I was a believer I never really made that much of an effort. Usually it was just a variation of "hi, I have these magazines, want em?" because whenever I tried something different, like something from the Reasoning Book, I'd either screw it up or be thrown completely off guard because the householder would respond in a way that wasn't in the book. A few people tried to debate with me, but I was never good at it. Usually I ended up coming up with the perfect response a few minutes after the conversation ended. Like once, I had these Baptist kids come up to me to invite me to their church event. I told them I was a JW, and we started discussing hell. The kid showed me their pamphlet that had that scripture in Revelation that said "and death and hell were thrown into the lake of fire." He said "so you see, the lake of fire is hell." I totally didn't see the contradiction in that it said hell was actually being thrown into the lake of fire, so the lake of fire couldn't have been hell, but I just said I'd have to ask someone older and left.

    - If JW's have to do field service for a couple of hours at a time, would they welcome a non-religious chat... "So, how's this weather we're having today?"... or would they prefer... "Thank you, bye bye", so they can move on to the next door and hand out another flyer?

    It depends. Some people get chatty and making small talk to ease the householder into the discussion in encouraged. A JW might say, "you have a beautiful garden" if the person is working outside or something, and then break the ice that way. Of course, the small talk would only last up to a point before the JW starts itching to leave, and where I grew up the people who tended to talk too much were crazy, smelled incredibly foul, or both.

  • yknot
    yknot

    Also you get to count 'time' each week for studying with un-dunked kid

    *** km9/08p.3QuestionBox***

    In the past, only the parent conducting a family study with unbaptized children would report the time, even when both parents were involved in the discussion. However, this is being adjusted. If during the family study both parents share together in teaching the children, then both may count a maximum of one hour a week as field service. Of course, parents generally spend much more than one hour a week teaching their children. Training children involves constant effort on the part of both parents. (Deut. 6:6-9) However, the monthly field service report should reflect primarily what is being accomplished in the field. Therefore, no more than one hour a week is to be counted, even if the study lasts longer than an hour, is conducted more than once a week, or separate studies are conducted with the children. Only one parent would report the family Bible study and up to one return visit each week that the study was conducted.

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @losthobbit:

    After reading some posts on this forum it seems I've realized that I don't fully understand what field service is. It seems that field service is the following (and please correct me):

    - Something JW's have to do for a specific number of hours per month

    Field service is something that Jehovah's Witnesses would want to do as often as opportunities to do so arise during the day, week or month, since we have been given the privilege of sharing with others the good news of how they might bless themselves by following Jesus' example as we engage in what is essentially the same "search and rescue" mission that he began some 2,000 years ago in sharing the good news of what is on the horizon that will dramatically change all of the governments of the world, and to point out to those with whom we speak the only way in which they and their family might escape Jehovah's day, the calamity about which we have learned from our study of the Bible that will ensnare all of earth's inhabitants that have not taken appropriate steps to protect themselves from what's coming upon all persons "dwelling upon the face of all the earth." (Luke 21:34, 35) What I describe in this paragraph is a relatively brief description of what field service consists.

    - Can be any of the following: handing out pamphlets / flyers, phoning, writing, debating, inviting to bible study

    Debating, no, but many Jehovah's Witnesses do distribute pamphlets, booklets and magazines, some might design flyers, make phone calls, and some will write cards and letters addressed to folks living in their communities. We do not seek folks out with whom we might posit arguments to score points in debating these with them, but our endeavor is to provide relief and comfort to those poor in spirit, and to release those held captive to the false religious systems of worship, to religious traditions that have so dominated mankind in falsehoods that many unknowingly walk about blindly in religious dungeons of ignorance.

    Our endeavor is to provide a release to those held captive and to provide a healing to those struck with spiritual blindness so that they are able to see the truths that the Bible teaches, and to make it clear to them that God's "year of goodwill," which began almost 100 years ago back in 1914 will be immediately followed by His "day of vengeance," just as it did when God's "year of goodwill," which had begun in 29 AD when Jesus commenced his ministry, ended some 41 years later when God's "day of vengeance" brought the Jewish system of worship with the attendant sacrifices that had been offered by the Jews at their temple in Jerusalem came to an end in 70 AD. (Luke 4:18,19; Isaiah 61:1, 2)

    Now while many people have read in the Bible or have heard these words from the Bible, they have read and heard them without their having any understanding of what the significance of these words meant then or what they mean now, so we search out those deserving to hear the message of the Kingdom of God that will bring to them the same peaceful relations with God through the Lord Jesus Christ that we ourselves enjoy as His servants. (Matthew 10:11-13)

    So, a couple of questions:

    Does this mean that JW's don't actually have to go door to door, and could theoretically write a mass spam emailing program which they run for a specific number of hours per month.

    At Matthew 10:11, Jesus instructed: "Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving." Obviously, the internet didn't exist the, so the ability to spam folks with email wasn't available to Jesus' disciples back in the first century AD either, but their entering a "city or village" to search out who in the city or village was deserving clearly required visiting people at their homes, which is the primary approach that Jehovah's Witnesses take in searching out deserving ones, just as the apostle Paul points out at Acts 20:20 that in addition to engaging in publicly teaching fellow Christians, he also engaged in doing so "from house to house" as Jesus had instructed his followers to do.

    - Have you ever gone door to door, while not actually believing the teachings of the organization?

    The majority of Jehovah's Witnesses that are actively engaged in our "search and rescue" work do so believing the teachings of the Bible, for what things we have learned from our study of the Bible is what Jehovah's organization teaches, since "with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation." (Romans 10:10) In fact, those that "live by means of the good news" are "being saved" along with those to whom we declare the good news as long as they and we "are holding it fast," otherwise, we will have become "believers to no purpose." (1 Corinthians 9:14; 15:2 )

    No one can be saved by works, for anyone that goes out in field service to put on a pretense before men of their faith is just performing works, and no one can earn their salvation by works, but we are saved "owing to a hearing by faith" (Ephesians 2:8, 9; Galatians 3:5), and genuine faith will be accompanied by such godly works of faith as is demonstrated when one actively engages in the field ministry, for "faith without works is dead." (James 2:14, 26)

    And, if so, did you still debate with people, or did you simply avoid questions, and say "I don't know", or "Maybe"? I'm particularly curious about this, because I wonder if there's a way to tell, when a JW comes around what their actual level of belief is... like, is there a question that you would have tried to avoid?

    No comment.

    - If JW's have to do field service for a couple of hours at a time, would they welcome a non-religious chat... "So, how's this weather we're having today?"... or would they prefer... "Thank you, bye bye", so they can move on to the next door and hand out another flyer?

    There is no requirement on any of Jehovah's Witnesses, except those that have themselves made a vow to Jehovah (like those among our ranks that we refer to as "pioneers") that they will devote a specific number of hours per month in the field ministry, to spend any number of hours in field service, so if it happens that when we arrive you had been on your computer using your browser to search for employment, and this prompts you to ask if the Witness is able to suggest a website that might provide employment opportunities in a particular field, I suppose that could be described as a "non-religious chat," or if their visit to your home should prompt you to ask whether the torture condoned by the Bush Administration should be creditted with the killing of Osama bin Laden, I suppose that this, too, could be described as a "non-religious chat."

    In either case though, keep in mind that Jehovah's Witnesses come to your door with an agenda, a message of hope, and that they would more likely than not leave a magazine, a booklet or a tract for you to read and then move on to the next door, and promise to call on you at some other time if they should conclude you are not deserving to hear what we have come to share with you at that time.

    We believe God's "year of goodwill" will soon come to an end, so we would much rather make a note to come back if time permits us to do so -- it's very possible that our visit to your home may be our last visit and we never get to come back -- and use our time to find those deserving, who want to hear the good news of salvation that we bring, rather than engage in non-religious chatter with folks desirous of discussing mundane things that won't matter when God's "day of judgment" arrives.

    @djeggnog

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    One thing to remember is field service is really cult recruiting/cult reinforcement.

    Because JWs do not perform charitable works toward the community at large like feeding the poor, clothing the poor, building and running hospitals, they have to find another avenue to get people in the door of the kingdom hall.

    Current statistics show that it takes more than 5,000 hours of JW preaching per baptism. If you generously say that only 50% of baptisms are children of current JWs, then they actually spend 10,000 hours of preaching for a new recruit! So a JW would have to spend 5 years straight going 8 hours a day if you look at an average work week to get one new person to accept their religion.

    So that leads to the question of why do they do it? As I said in the first sentence, it is part of their reinforcement process. If you are not seen in service often, you are labeled as "weak" though this may be through gossip and whispers. The elders will also have their eye on you if you are only seen once a month for an hour or two. If you don't go for six months straight, they officially label you as "inactive" and pressure will start to find you and get you back in the recruiting work. This kind of peer pressure from the elders and other publishers can be difficult to deal with for those trying to quietly leave the religion. Some turn in completly fake field service reports each month, simply to keep the elders off of them.

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