ixthis, you have indicated some very nice issues that I wanted to explain regarding Constantine, thanks!
1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization
by StandFirm 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Terra Incognita
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Height: Very tall ego.
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ixthis
Thank you JustHuman.
What my intention for posting is to challenge "standard" biased thinking to get people outside the comfort zone and present much better proof of arguments.
The link I provided points out a very critical question that we should have asked at the start of this debate - what are the sources of information from which we gather our information from?
ProdigalSon uses Blavatsky to quote his thinking on Constantine without also presenting research about her lifestyle and who she actually is. She is not a good source of information to validate a negation against Constantine since her origin is "theosophy" which is in and of itself evil there is a direct link between her and a Satanic foundation. Does that not strike anyone as curious?
Furthermore, the only "original" source of historical information that contains any negative comments about Constantine lies in the writings of "Zosimas" (who lived 425 - 518 roughly) ... it is interesting to note, he was a pagan and an idol worshiper of his time. Hmmm ... I smell a rat :) Apparantly, his historical writings are not even considered as unbiased by historians so why do we continue in our negative thinking? What is the source promoting negativity?
That source is the Protestant/Evangelical movement ... the children of Martin Luther, the break away of the Roman Catholics. In order to justify establishing a "religion" "outside" of "Holy Tradition" they use his (Zosimas) writing as validation to create stigma towards the historical memory of this Emperor and thus a negativity towards Orthodox Christianity ...
But the words in Scripture tell us, that the gates of Hades will never prevail against the Church (Maksym pointed that out beautifully before).
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maksym
Maksym (waves) at his fellow people in Orthodox Christianity and others that have contributed.
It is nice to have an Eastern Orthodox view of things here represented. Thanks everyone that contributed.
To Just Human and Ixthis, God bless you and may His light shine upon you.
As for the Standfirm, he is AWOL
Kristos Anest!
Christ is Risen!
Maksym
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JustHuman14
Personally I have seen few ex-JW's looking at the East Orthodox Church. The problem with Westerns is that they complete ignore East Orthodox Church. The main reason is that Protestand Movement is a brake way branch of Catholicism but when they start to know East Orthodox Theology they have a complete different view of Christianity.
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maksym
I agree with you JustHuman,
But you just have to remember one thing that is very important. That is, that the Roman Catholic religion is the "first protestant", in the larger most Western sense. That is all. The Church never died. It continued from the line of the Apostles. Apostacy does happen but the Church continues. Most JW's don't understand this.
Thank you for contributing to this forum. It will plant seeds in those that are heartfelt and searching. You are a good contributor.
God bless you,
Maksym
Edit, there were earlier examples, including the Donatists and Arians but the principle is the same. It would be interesting to this forum, I think, if someone would start a debate against the notion that apostacy started after the apostles died off. Where is the scriptural support for that notion?
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ProdigalSon
ixthis said: I understand how you might believe you are not in need of saving but would you consider the questions I have posed of you? There are a lot more issues and points I was conversing with you than that one ...
Since original sin (a Catholic invention) is false, the entire premise of Christianity is false. Jesus, Paul, Buddha, the Dalai Lama, and every other Master tells us that the way to God is within, through EXPERIENTIAL KNOWLEDGE. Paul called it "Gnosis". Therefore, there is no need for religion or any church, as the way to God is internal to each individual. That would render all the other points about Constantine and the Catholic Church meaningless.
As for Blavatsky, you're misguided about her like every other Christian who reads the Bible literally. You think she is a Satanist, and that theosophy is evil, because you take the Bible at face value and are thoroughly deceived. Any Jewish Rabbi who knows anything at all will tell you this. They are ALLEGORIES. The straightforward wording is called "vulgar" by the initiates and is considered by them to be FOLLY and utter foolishness. The Bible was written by Kabbalists, the true meaning intended to be understood only by those versed in the "mysteries", while the dead-letter is intended to deceive the masses and keep them under control.
Jehovah is the bad guy, unaware that he is only a sub-god and not the Almighty (see Psalm 82:1). The serpent, the ancient Life Principle found in many cultures, is Lucifer, the Light-Bearer, and the bright morning star. Jesus made the same claim, so they are one and the same. The serpent told the truth. It was Jehovah that lied. The true God is not jealous, angry, vindictive, or violent. The True God is pure Love and Light and not capable of producing "darkness" or "calamity" like Jehovah can. The True God has to first be combined with the other elements of the "Trinity", Wisdom and Consciousness, before his energy can "create". We are much further removed, seven levels in fact, from the "Most High God". It's difficult to fathom, but the Supreme God did not create this world directly, this is why the Proverbs tries to explain that it is WISDOM, the Master Worker, the LOGOS that does the creating. This is why Jehovah, the local demiurge, receives Israel as an inheritance. To receive an inheritance, someone has to have the authority to give it to you. If you had read any of the links I provided, where Blavatsky explains all this, and how Christians stole ALL of their ideas from the "pagans", you might possibly see the "light". You might also want to read the threads that are floating around here about "Jehovah, the Ugaritic Texts and the Sons of El", and the origins of the New Testament. Jehovah is a male and female energy INSIDE OF YOU. Look within for "salvation", not to the sky, or to any church, or to any doctrine or dogma. These things could not possibly matter any less.
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ixthis
20571pnt428571
As interesting a read as your post is, it does not hold any truth in it ...
The number 144,000 is symbolic ... it is a symbol of 12 x 12 x 1000, which reveals completeness: the 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 disciples of Christ, the 12 gates of Jerusalem, the 12 Hosts of angels, the 12 foundations, the 12 precious stones, the 12 pearls, Revel 21:12-21 ...
The Jehovah's Witness claim that the great populace as a result will be found here on earth. Upon closer examination, it is apparent that they in fact contradict themselves when they call on this verse in Revelations.
Revelations 7:9 states, "... standing before the throne and before the Lamb." The throne and the Lamb are actually found in heaven and not on earth, so it follows that the great populace will also be in heaven. John's vision of the 144000 and the great populace is the entire faithful who will constitute the triumphant Church in heaven. There are no two flocks, small or great ...
There IS:
- One flock. One Shepherd
- One Bride. One Groom
- One Church. One Lord
- One Kingdom. One King
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will not be on earth but in heaven.
Matt 8:11 "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."
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maksym
20571pnt428571 wrote - The 100 year Christians, first century, were held in a unity by the power of spirit in the last Bible writers, the apostles. John said they acted as a restraint, EVEN with them, Satan and imperfection worked hard to break the unity.
I realise that we can all imagine things as if they are fantasy, and I understand that many novels, books and movies are made from such but can you back this above claim up with anything to support such a notion? The Bible is clear when it says that this is not true. Please re-read my post above for the Biblical support for the fact that the Church cannot die out because Jesus told us otherwise.
20571pnt428571 wrote - So for basically 1700-1900 years we can see Christendom turned into a group who no longer kept the legal covenant which the apostles were the first in, the New Covenant, the Kingdom Covenant. This was and is, a legally binding agreement between Jesus and the 144000, starting with the FAITHFUL apostles, of which the man of lawlessness was sent away, as Satan's.
Define Christendom for me. Is it not true that a bias exists between your view of what is Christendom and others? I believe Jehovah's Witnesses are the AntiChrist and that they are working for Satan. How do you define Apostasy and those that are led by Satan?
20571pnt428571 wrote - So today, a hard to keep unity, but kept none the less, is amongst Jehovah's witnesses, and within them is those who publicly proclaim, and have explained the meaning, of the New Covenant they are completing in membership the last of the 144000, LEGALLY.
Show me in the Bible, or otherwise historically throughout the ages that the religion of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society is LEGALLY in the covenant to be the church of Christ, and is in the New Covenant.
Could Christendom really ever be ones discerning that body? And refuting the little flock of Jehovah's choosing?
No. They are in the dark, by transgressing that covenant.
You write like the WTBS Publishing Corporation. Can you provide some support for this claim or should we just go on belief alone? No one can argue just belief. I'll give you an example. Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be the true Church of Christ because their organisation did not begin until 1879. Christ's church (organisation) has been long lasting and cannot be broken for all eternity until His second coming. There, you see....that's easy. I just did what you did without any support Biblically or otherwise. Ain't that fun.
Amazing that Jehovah's first ministry, and his last ministry, are roughly 100 years long. Even with holy spirit, it is very difficult to keep Adamic children in line. And that I believe is why Jehovah knows this is to be a short ministry, leading to an everlasting ministry, the 144000 with Jesus at the helm. Any longer, and it would be difficult, if not impossible to maintain unity in Adamic human systems. IMO
My response is this is more opinion than anything.
Great timing on God's part, and the completion to incorruptible perfection and immortality will be God's final organization enacted in covenant agreement for this specific purpose, of 1Cor15:24-28, which is removal of death, from human systems - LEGALLY. All fully clarified in 100 years to approval, and 1000 years to perfection of also this realm, and removal of ALL of God's enemies, Satan and death being one massive conquest.
My response again is that these statements are nothing but unsubstantiated rhetoric.
Heb2:14
Jehovah's witnesses are the last organization of God in imperfect man, and they will deliver the remnant (144000) as a single flock to the last man, they are also the channel of the knowledge God gives to ONLY those in the legally binding agreement his son instituted on earth, for a Kingdom, by new creation. Gal6:15-16
The Last Century Christians
Seriously whoever you are you can't write like this an expect anyone to take you seriously. If you are a JW then I seriously doubt that you educate (indoctrinate) people in their homes like this. Today people just don't take opinions at face value and expect them to be fact.
So my question to you is, are these teachings yours or anothers? Why should anyone believe them? What sources and support can you provide to back them up? Or are you here just for a bit of glory and want to move on? If you are a JW then at the very least quote your sources from your own publishing company.
Take care
Maksym
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maksym
Maksym waves at Ixthis
