Hello

by Chariklo 132 Replies latest jw experiences

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  finding my way

  Just a couple little tidbits from me.

  You mentioned the good friends you made. When I was disfellowshipped my best friend wrote me a letter explaining that she would have to think of me as a dead person for now. I was so brainwashed that I accepted this. I was the "bad" one for being disfellowshipped so I deserved it right?! nevermind the fact that the brother I was dating was forcing me to do things with him that I didn't want to do (leading to my disfellowshipment). they only love you conditionally, whereas my worldy friends i had made in school forgave me for telling them they were bad association and not talking to them for ages.

  Also you mentioned that some of their info seemed to be bibically true... something like that. One of the kickers for me was the verse they use to "explain" the whole 144k thing. If you read Rev.7 in it's entirety iit's talking about 2 classes of people, but not a heavenly and earthly in the sense that the earthly will inhabit the earth. It talks about a heavenly class and a class that will perish. It doesn't back up their claim at all. I'm not sure if I have the scripture right. Look in the back of the bible in that questiion section under the 144,000, then read the verse and all the ones around it.
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  Podobear

  @AnnOMaly: Thanks Ann... I was angling at the supposition of those who use the expression NT to invalidate the OT... the Covenant, as you quite rightly point out was fulfilled in Christ... but the benefits and blessings from the Old Covenant will likewise CONTINUE to be fulfilled through the New Covenant in Christ. This extends to the promises given about the Earth as well as what takes place in Heaven.
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  sizemik

  John 5:39-40 (Good News Translation)

  You study the Scriptures, because you think that in them you will find eternal life. And these very Scriptures speak about me! 40 Yet you are not willing to come to me in order to have life.

  Too much Bible . . . not enough Christ . . . all we need is to know what "come to me" means . . . and that doesn't need any "church" or "teacher" in a man-made sense, IMO.
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  Chariklo

  Hi, finding my way, thanks for that. I think disfellowshipping is disgusting, the ultimate cult trick, but only effective once a person is so brainwashed and so dependent on the cult that disfellowshipping is utter social isolation.

  You are absolutely right; they are not "real" friends. They only "love" you if you play by the rules of the cult group.

  When I first found this board I was raw and struggling to find my way out of or rather away from the JW's. It was barely two weeks ago. When I look back at what I wrote then and realise how confused I still was it's extraordinary to think that I've already, within myself, moved so far away from them. Partly, though, this is because the last elder who spoke to me recognised that I was feeling hounded (I was indeed being really hounded by the couple conducting my study) and said he'd give me a ring in about a week. So I'm in a lull, but i am now much more confident about being able to stand up for myself anf I'm much clearer about what I believe, what I don't believe, and most importantly my absolute right to think for myself.

  I realise I'm fortunate. Even though I got in about as deep as I could without being baptised it was all commparatively recent, and I had a very strong underlying Christian faith which had never gone away. My biggest problem was that I was just too basically politye and I'd given people permission to talk with me about the stuff they believed in, and then made the fatal mistake of trying to show them where they were wrong.

  Yes, you're right about the 144,000. The whole thing is a house of cards.
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  AnnOMaly

  Thanks Ann... I was angling at the supposition of those who use the expression NT to invalidate the OT...

  Oh I see! I wasn't on your wavelength :-)
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  designs
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  godrulz

  Chari: I am reading the Koran. My statement is supported by a former Muslim who memorized the Koran by age 12 (Mark Gabriel) and taught at their top University in the world in Egypt. One key is a principle of the later revelation replacing earlier ones. In the beginning, Moe was at peace with Jews/Christians because he could use them. When the shift from Mecca to Medina occurred, his new revelation was to enslave Jews/Christians or kill them if they resisted or did not pay him money to exist. People who quote the early revelations are not representing true Islam since the later revelations negate the earlier ones (Koranic principle). Someone who now has a death threat and was a top teacher for Islam is more of an expert than you and I (I also verified the differing quotes in Qu'ran that seem to contradict unless one knows about the revelation principle).

  Pod: Christians are called homophobes and hate mongers for taking a moral stance against homosexuality. We do not fear homosexuals, but fear for them. Having a different view based on God's revelation does not mean we have homophobia nor hate. We speak truth in love based on God's authority and creation mandate. Homophobia is simply an empty ad hominem attack. Saying Jesus is the only way and that one must be born again may be seen as intolerant and hate rhetoric by a secular, godless media personality, but it is actually truth that needs to be proclaimed and defended. The same guy would complain about how Jesus is narrow minded, intolerant, hateful, etc. Since Jesus alone is God, risen from the dead, His claims are absolute and He truly is the only way to heaven (not generic Jesus, but the Great I AM, the Alpha and the Omega, the Mighty God, Lord Yahweh, Immanuel). Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12 Britain is a relativistic mess needing to return to absolute truth. Granted, Christians can believe and do dumb things, so we must only condone that which is biblical.
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  godrulz

  Podo: The OT Palestinian covenant, etc. relates to Israel. The NT relates to the Church. We should not confuse the future covenant fulfillments with Israel and the promises to the Church. Church Age saints (and OT ones) all have a heavenly hope. The only ones on earth in the millennium will be the survivors of Armageddon.

  findingway: JWs are inconsistent to take the number 144K literally, but the Jewish 12 tribe thing figuratively. Both can and should be taken literally. The context of Rev. 6-19 is the future Tribulation (Daniel's 70th week....saying a verse in the middle of this refers to the 1935 JW Convention shows how clueless the WT is in its pseudo-scholarship). The 144,000 are Jewish Christians on earth during the Tribulation raised up by God. They are not an elite group of a few JWs that are anointed/born again (the Bible says all followers of Christ must be born again and have a heavenly hope). The Great Crowd in Revelation is actually before the throne in heaven. They are the ones martyred during this future time (so JWs have it all backwards). God will use and preserve the 144K. Making a big doctrine on two classes out of 2 verses shows that WT does not do exegesis, just imports ideas on the text and then twist them to make them fit (objections about Dan not being mentioned are easily answered).

  Instead of ex-JWs being turned off God, Bible, Church, they need to get healed from their negative experiences, deal with the reasons they were deceived, and move on to follow God and the Bible the right way. There is nothing to fear from knowing the true God, fellowshipping with a Christ-centered/Bible-centered local church, growing in sound doctrine to dispel false teaching. This will lead to freedom and maturity. Overreacting and disdaining the possibility of knowing truth that sets free keeps one where Satan wants them (if he can't keep you from God, he will be happy to have you in a false religion; if one wants to be a pagan, that works fine too; religion is of the devil, not God. Relationship with God is the way to go and it does not happen apart from Christ, Word, Spirit.
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  Sayswho

  Jw's have all the traits of a cult...Read the below it was worth sharing...

  • Furthermore, within all of us there is a basic desire to know and serve God. The cults take advantage of this and offer ready-made, but ultimately unsatisfying, solutions. Most cults tell their followers what to believe, how to behave and what to think, and emphasize dependence upon the group or leader for their emotional stability. The Passantinos give an example of this:

  • A person does not usually join a cult because he has done an exhaustive analysis of world religions and has decided that a particular cult presents the best theology available. Instead, a person usually joins a cult because he has prob­lems that he is having trouble solving, and the cult promises to solve these problems. Often these problems are emotional.

  Sw
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  jgnat

  Charilko, it is delightful to see your personality shining so. The reversion to your natural personality confirms what Steve Hassan says about exiting cultists. It is as if you have woken up, and the questions come free and fast, from what was a locked door. Congratulations! You won't get coaxed back in now. www.freedomofmind.com

  Aha, Mark Gabriel, one of evangelical's golden children. http://www.drmarkgabriel.com/