Lack of take up of Advance Directive forms

billyboy

As some of you know, I am an elder in a southern England congregation. The Britain branch ( policy letter dec 8th 2007) stopped all HLC brothers giving talks at other congregations and as a result the take-up of the Advance Directive form (AD) has dropped dramatically. JWs are presenting themselves at hospitals without the form and NHS staff are phoning the HLC to ask that an elder visits to help them compose it while in hospital.

The UK branch is asking HLC members to meet up with bodies of elders so that we can "educate the brothers" (their expression) - we had our meeting a few weeks ago with a couple of the HLC brothers. Basically we aren't allowed to address the issue on the platform as this could be seen as public coercion and the WTBTS are very keen to shield themselves legally from any court cases & want to maintain the fiction that this is an individual JW decision.

We are to make a list of JWs in the congregation who haven't completed AD forms & meet up with them in shepherding visits , "encouraging" them to complete the form. Particular emphasis is given to those who are ill , have medical conditions or who have sick children and women of child bearing age who are (or might become) pregnant. Luckily I've managed to distance myself from the calls.

wobble

The take up is low because the R&F JW's do not understand the present Doctrine on blood, and they all rightly feel that they could not justify it from the Bible.

They push aside filling in the form until some time they hope will come in the future, a time where they do feel that they believe there is enough Biblical backing to risk their own lives, or worse the lives of their children.

Most JW's are mentally lazy, they like to be told what to believe, and they like to be told how to act, the WT has already stolen their conscience and thinking ability, now to protect its own ass and $$$ it wants them to think and to act on their own conscience.

If you get the chance, you should try to get the HLC guys to prove the fractions thing from scripture, put it to them that you have had difficulty explaining it to the "Friends" and can they help, then don't let them fob you off with watchtower references, it must come from the Bible.

This is life or death we are talking about, if it is not plainly taught in the Bible why risk anything ?

billyboy

I did ask the HLC members a few questions but it is very difficult to get any reasoning with them as they were just WTBTS drones who parroted everything that the society say (one brother kept on talking about "direction from Mother" so he wasn't exactly the best kind of guy to reason with! They were full of the latest medical advances in "bloodless surgery" feeling that this vindicates the WTBTS (for example there is a new synthethised form of the anti - rhesus negative jab coming out that doesn't require a blood fraction.

The main vibes that I got were the underlying feeling that the WTBTS wants it both ways - they very much want to disassociate themselves from any legal liability while wanting to enforce a 100% take up of the AD forms.

wobble

Yup, that is the way they work, deny any culpability for influencing the stupid suicidal decisions of their members, but want their members to live according to how they interpret scripture at present. Live according to a conscience dictated by the Watchtower, but pretend it is their own.

That is why in your position you should try to put a spanner in the works in some way. As I said, this is no light matter, lives are involved, lives that the GB/WT know or care nothing about, they will continue to sacrifice lives to their murderous, unsupportable doctrine for as long as they want.

They cannot simply abandon their doctrine, they would be sued in to oblivion by those who have lost family members, so they are trying a slow imperceptible reverse out of it, hence the "New Light" on fractions. New medical procedures that use no blood just help them along.

They will also use the HLC guys to try to minimise bad press and to try now, to get JW's to accept any treatment the GB now rules as acceptable, many old timers still go by the "abstain from blood" principle, finding that easier to assimilate than the modern messy doctrine, so the HLC is there to save them from themselves.

blondie

So how do you know who hasn't filled out a form? Are they required to give a copy to the BOE? Just knowing they once had one doesn't mean they still do. How do they know if they filed it with the hospital, clinic, personal physician without violating medical confidentiality?

Band on the Run

This is eerie. It smacks of Hitler and Mao with the erosion of privacy. I am pro-choice. The Roman Catholic Church involvement in barring abortion as a choice bothers me greatly. I perfectly understand the Church's teaching that it is murder. The moral strictures and teaching from the pulpit should dissuade any Catholic from choice. Involving the government to enforce what the church obviously can't enforce is beyond me. When no Catholics get abortion, maybe move on.

It seems to me that the Witnesses are becoming more and more intrusive. If the HOly Spirit is with them, why isn't that enough moral sausion. Why involve the government with compliance. Can a family prove there was undue influence? My parents did not truly believe in the blood ban. If push came to shove, I could not see either parent enforcing it. My mom said no blood for my younger sister and I exploded. She promptly removed it.

Showing the elders a faux document and giving a hospital/doctor a legally binding one are two separate actions. People would not be Witnesses in the first place if they were not people pleasers.

If a competent adult does not want blood that should be respected. If a Witness truly cared and believed, they would not need to be hectored into submission.

Witness My Fury

@blondie: The congregation used to be encouraged to make out the Directives and give a copy to the Secretary. Not sure about now but this was the case a couple of years ago.

It bothered me then. This a supposed to be a personal decision and the form contains personal conscience matters,... so WHY does the secretary NEED to have a copy of it? The wording in the KM articles (UK) gave the impression "MAY" give a copy to the secretary, but in the meeting items themselves it was always made out to be a requirement.

I gave up carrying a blood card years ago and refused point blank to fill in the AD form.

DavinciCodeBreaker

I shredded mine a few months ago. Then a couple of weeks ago I was approached by a young couple in our hall and asked me to witness their MD form. I could not do it in good conscience so I amade up an excuse that it would be better to ask an elder to witness it for them. Poor souls!

cofty

It was the beginning of my exit from the organisation in 96 when I was an elder and was supposed to counter-sign the blood cards for my book study group. I told a fellow elder that I would not carry and could not sign others in good conscience.

I remember watching Paul Gillies on Brittish TV years ago spouting nonsense about how it was a matter of individual conscience and was not imposed by the organisation.

BluesBrother

I can well believe that the numbers of them completing the forms has dropped (We are talking about the "Blood Card" to carry on your person rather than the big form to place with your doctor, right?)

The dub family members have not completed the "blood card"....because they cannot get their head around the various choices and it seems just too complicated . I guess in reality they cannot understand the current blood policy, although that would not be admitted. One of them carries instead a "No Blood" key fob that was bought on the net from a pro J W site. At least that is simple to understand !

Billyboy, I was once an elder in a Southern congo...moved up here some years back and "saw the light " about "The Truth", so called.

Lack of take up of Advance Directive forms

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