Damn them!
I thought another court decided they aren't covered because it isn't confidential, it is reported to "Mother".
Elders refuse to give evidence of a molester and the molester gets away with it!
by punkofnice 29 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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life is to short
That is just so sick and so madding. I am sure that guy who molested the girl is going door to door and who knows what else all with the elders nodding approval.
I have seen it with my own eyes in the hall I attended. Three child molesters in my hall.
When I asked the CO if, I a victim of sexual abuse myself would have to have one of the child molesters in my car as my husband was an elder and this so called past child molester was hell bent on my elder husband working with him door to door the CO told me I needed to get a handle on my feelings and that I was in the wrong. He said the past of this man was none of my concern, that the fact that this "brother" had rapped a child and then pimped either woman or children as his internet record did not give the age of the females he pimped just that he pimped them. The CO said what this man did was no different than the past of many of the sisters who were prostitutes or the past of drug abusers. We did not need to know their past either. I looked this CO in the face and wanted to hit him, I was so mad. I said well what about all the life stories in the WT's and Awakes about the past of many who came into the truth. Many, many, many brothers and sisters talk about their past of abusing drugs and selling themselves for sex. If we are not to talk about it then why is it in the magazines?????????????
The CO just looked blankly at me and never answered.
My husband stepped down as a the group overseer because I threw such a fit about not have a rapist in my car. That was how I took care of it.
SICK is all I can say.
LITS
PS Blondie is so right about SNAP they are great.
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punkofnice
@LITShort = The CO said what this man did was no different than the past of many of the sisters who were prostitutes or the past of drug abusers.
There's all the difference in the world here. Molesters claim vulnerable and defensless children as their victims.......prostitutes and drug abusers don't!
Perhaps this CO was also a paedophile!
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nugget
sadly not all guilty men are convicted and my thoughts are with the victim right now who has testified to no effect. If the elders knew or suspected that he had molested the girl then they would have been the supporting witnesses and it is indeed shameful that they did not support the legal process. If they had investigated it and found nothing then they could have supported the man in court and helped to clear his reputation so they have done nothing of value to anyone. I suspect that they were more concerned about answering questions about their own processes and failures than helping anyone.
The sad thing is that the organisation is more concerned with protecting it's reputation and avoiding litigation than protecting it's most vulnerable sheep.
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Scully
The ministers said it is the religious belief and practice of Jehovah's Witnesses, based upon Scripture and tradition, that elders must maintain in strict confidence any church communications connected with spiritual counseling and that congregants expect their communications to elders will remain confidential.
This was overturned some time ago by the Supreme Court in Canada. The Clergy-Penitent Privilege is understood to be an interaction between ONE individual and ONE member of the clergy who hears the person's confession. The Penitent approaches the clergy with a contrite heart and confesses privately. While this can happen in the realm of a JW Judicial Committee, most often there is a complaint by a member of the congregation that requires investigation, and investigation requires that other individuals are brought into the transaction through questioning and/or approaching the Elder Body to report questionable behaviour. The WTS is made aware of the individual and the behaviour that led to the decision to DF, in writing no less, using forms S-77 and S-79. Finally, the congregation - although not naming the individual to give a semblance of confidentiality - gives a very public Local Needs Talk™ discussing the type of behaviour that resulted in either Private or Public Reproof™ or Disfellowshipping™. There is NO confidentiality in the legal or clerical sense of the term when a JW Judicial Committee™ is involved.
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DesirousOfChange
WASONCE said: It is highly unlikely that the court abides by the "two witness" rule. If they put all the evidence out, he should have been convicted. Just the word of the alleged victim should have been enough. The jury is not going to want to see any physical evidence because there likely would be none. It is highly unusual for a victim NOT to be believed. I'm sure there is more to this than those fools not testifying though they should have done so. These cases are seldom simple. I hope that he is in fact innocent.
That is exactly right. Where is the testimony of the victim? Fourteen years of age is old enough to be a credible witness if her story were true. This could easily have started as a custody battle and the charge of abuse was used as a threat and went crazy enough to find it's way into the courtroom.
FINALLY, Ecclesiastical Immunity is not something that the WTS dreamed up. It is the law in many lands, including the US. If the WTS would waive/compromise their EI to testify, then they could be sued by the person who was entitled to the privacy. In many US states, child abuse is not granted EI and must be reported to authorities by clergy who become aware of such abuse. It is my understanding that the WTS directs its clergy members to report such cases in these states. In the past, they did not report it in states which did not have such a law. IMO that is not a WTS problem. It is a State problem for failing to pass laws to protect children.
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punkofnice
Here is a snippet from the new secret 'Flock' book that no one except eldubs has access to...........
CHILD ABUSE
18. You should immediately call the branch office for direction if you learn of an accusation of child abuse, regardless of the age of the victim now or at the time of the alleged abuse, even if it occurred before the alleged perpetrator's baptism. The branch office will then give direction based on the circumstances involved in each situation.
19. Child abuse is a crime. Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities. If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision. Elders will not criticize anyone who reports such an allegation to the authorities. If the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so. -Gal. 6:5.
20. When a known child molester moves to another congregation, the Congregation Service Committee should send a letter of introduction with full and complete information about his background and current situation. Any letter from the branch office concerning the child molester should not be photocopied or sent to the new congregation. However, the new congregation should be clearly informed of any restrictions imposed by the branch office. A copy of the letter of introduction should be sent to the branch office.
21. In a case in which a brother denies an allegation of child abuse and he has been accused by only one witness, the following direction is given if he
moves to another congregation. The elders should consult the branch office before sending any information regarding the accusation to the elders in the
new congregation. It would be helpful if your letter to the branch office provided a detailed summary of the matter and explained the spiritual condition and personal circumstances of the accused and the accuser.
With regard to the accused, the following questions should be answered:
(1) What is his interaction with children?
(2) Does he admit to any activity with the accuser that could have been misinterpreted by the accuser as sexual abuse, or does he claim to have a poor memory of the accusation?
(3) What is his response to why the accuser has made the allegation?
(4) Has he had to be counseled for any other matters of a sexual nature, such as inappropriate conduct with adult sisters or pornography?
(5) What is the level of ills spirituality?
(6) Do all the elders on the body believe that he can be trusted with children?
The following questions should be answered with regard to the accuser:
(1) What is the level of maturity of the child or youth?
(2) Is he (or she) describing conduct that one his age would not normally know about?
(3) Is the child or his parents known to be serious, mature?
(4) Is his memory consistent, or is it intermittent, or does it involve repressed memories? (w95 11/1 pp. 25-26)
(5) What is the reputation of the parents?
(6) Are they spiritually and emotionally mature?
After carefully considering the matter, the branch office will then give you direction as to what information about the allegation should be shared, if
any, with the elders of the new congregation. -
Justitia Themis
Why in gods name would the prosecution decided "not to call to the witness stand", these three assholes elders?!
What precisely would you have the prosecutor ask them since the judge upheld the "clergy/penitent" motion thereby restricting the questions he/she can ask?
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exwhyzee
I had never heard of any of these unreported molestations/domestic violence issues until I left the Org and read all about it on here. Last weekend on of my "still in" siblings was visiting from out of town. Not having their own car, I was asked to drop them off at a JW gathering. Everyone I knew there, wanted to know what Hall I was attending now. I finally had to just tell them outright that I'm not going anymore ,and you could have heard a pin drop. Later, a very nice older Sister who had been raised a JW, told me that she had left also for about 10 years but had returned after she realized how out of place she was in the "World" and because of the recent world conditions. She encouraged me to do the same. I told her my "leaving" story and she was very sympathetic. Apparently she had been married to and Elder for 21 years and he beat her regularly. The other elders wouldn't believe her or do anything about it even though her children backed her up. Then her pre teen daughter was raped by a teenaged Elders Son. They wouldn't let her go to the Police saying she would be disfellowshipped for slander and reproach, if she did. She went along with their counsil but warned them that it would be on their heads if this kid offended again. He did offend again a few years later and this time wound up in jail. She divorced her husband and it came out later that he too had been guilty of violent behavior. She had been vindicated, but she was so angry that she had been let down by J's organization that she left altogether until she returned a few years ago. She advised me to do the same, only this time, I should dismiss what the society says that doesn't agree with my own conscience and my own understanding of the Bible, saying "this is no time to take any chances because the end is so near".
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DesirousOfChange
only this time, I should dismiss what the society says that doesn't agree with my own conscience and my own understanding of the Bible,
Gotta admit, I like that old lady's thinking.
