Life after death (page 13)

cofty

At death, the spirit/body separates until a future resurrection

Thats an extraordinary claim; do you have some extraordinary evidence to back it up? We haven't seen any in this thread so far.

We cannot know full truth about God or spiritual things apart from His self-revelation in creation, Christ, Scripture. I am satisfied that the Word of God is what it claims to be and that Jesus is God in the flesh and spoke truth. I do not have 5-sense scientific evidence that is conclusive because these things are in the realm of spiritual truth, philosophy, etc., not observation of creation alone.

nicolaou

I am so tired of this crap;

"the real you is spirit-soul, not just grey matter. The body without the spirit is dead, but the spirit without the body is very much alive. A brain is for a physical body, but is unnecessary for consciousness, thinking, acting, feeling. At death, the spirit/body separates until a future resurrection. The WT and secular view is wrong."

and

"We cannot know full truth about God or spiritual things apart from His self-revelation in creation, Christ, Scripture. I am satisfied that the Word of God is what it claims to be and that Jesus is God in the flesh and spoke truth. I do not have 5-sense scientific evidence that is conclusive because these things are in the realm of spiritual truth, philosophy, etc., not observation of creation alone."

What must it be like to pontificate like this without feeling even the slightest blush rise to your cheeks. I'm done with idiots like you . .

LouBelle

Thank you Nickolas for the science lesson. I still however do not believe my journey ends here, I don't know what form it will take and like I said if I will have the same conscious / awareness as I do now. Simple as that.

Thank you none the less for correcting me on the whole energy thing.

sizemik

All things organic harbour energy, Louise, whether living or dead. Petroleum and coal is the stored energy of unfathomable quadrillions of long dead life forms accumulated over hundreds of millions of years. When burned these fuels release their stored energy in the forms of heat and light and motion and they are in the process consumed forever. Energy dissipates according to the same physical laws that dictate that it can be neither created nor destroyed, returning it to the cosmos from whence it came.

I agree with this conceptually . . . but would add the following . . .

"Things" don't just "harbour" energy, organic or otherwise. After stripping myself of belief in WT doctrines, I went back to my roots in science. When attempting to understand the physical world one has little choice but to assemble the known facts (not theories) regarding the very "building blocks" of the physical world itself. Once again, persuing this course demands a fundemental understanding of nuclear physics . . . and the facts as we know them.

Science, in the search for the makeup of matter, has yet to find the basic "particle' out of which the physical world is constructed. Rather, what has been found is "energy" . . . nothing more. Each time a "particle" is identified, it itself has been found to be comprised of smaller components. The physical representation these components manifest is more a result of the energy they possess and the interaction of that energy rather than the components themselves. This has been true through the discovery of the "atom"and then the sub-atomic particles. Now even sub-atomic "particles have been found to possess "components" once again manifesting themselves primarily through the interaction of the energy they possess, to give themselves a physical "nature".

So what are the scientific facts as they stand today? . . . The physical world is made up of energy . . . nothing more. Energy presenting itself in such a way as to be "physical" . . . interpreted as such by humans, through the five senses. (bear with me here)

It is also scientific fact that energy is not destroyed but transforms from one form of presentation to another. It's easy to see how "matter" and energy interact so easily. The fact is (as science can prove to date) . . . matter is simply energy in a discernable form.

The other scientific fact regarding energy is that it must have a source . . . a previous form . . . it cannot arise from nothing.

When we take the scientific facts as a whole . . . the "source" of all energy, and thus the physical world . . . is the only scientific concept of "God"

Beyond that we can prove or disprove nothing. God is the source . . . because there must be one. But there is nothing else to elaborate on as to "it's" true nature or if "it" even has a purpose . . . a purpose that is scientifically provable. Under this definition of "god" . . . atheism is unscientific. But as with atheism . . . all religious belief beyond the scientific is man-made conjecture also.

However . . . If an atheists claim is that "there is no source" . . . that is simply unscientific . . . even Albert Einstein recognised that.

Scientifically, there is still a tremendous allowance required for the "unknown" . . . but to believe in the existence of a deity (a source) is not unscientific in itself.

Additionally, there may be much more to the complete "spectrum" of energy than has been discovered . . .

Recent research has shown the human brain is much more than electrochemical . . . it is also electromagnetic and therefore has the possibility of interacting directly with external electromagnetic influences (not through the five senses). Also, a new previously unknown form of energy has been discerned within sub-atomic "particles" (heavy energy) about which little is understood beyond knowing of it's existence.

The "known" as well as the "unknown" from science, still allow for the existence of a deity, as well as manifestations of "energy" we are yet to understand . . . the implications of which cannot yet be determined . . . so anything is possible.

To restrict oneself to a religious or biblical version of God is restrictive and mind-closing, but then so is athiestic dogma IMO.

Shit . . . did that make sense?

LouBelle

sizemik: yup I agree with that and it makes sense to me. These days I don't get all long winded about things. Perhaps I should have explained myself better but I, ag sometimes I just don't want too, simple as that. I just posted my opinion on a forums page *shrug*

Fadeout

sizemik: However . . . If an atheists claim is that "there is no source" . . . that is simply unscientific . . . even Albert Einstein recognised that.

Scientifically, there is still a tremendous allowance required for the "unknown" . . . but to believe in the existence of a deity (a source) is not unscientific in itself.

Not true. If valid scientific reasoning leads us to the conclusion that there is an "unknown" as the source of the energy, it is not at all scientific to then believe in the existence of a diety as that source, any more than it was good science to attribute the rising of the sun to Apollo in the days before we understood the concept of the solar system.

Throughout history, gaps in scientific knowledge have been filled in by "God did it." But God's habitat is being destroyed by scientific advance.

godrulz

Saying things that are biblically true is not tantamount to pontificating nonsense. Your beef is with the content or the possibility of knowing absolute truth. Relativism is useless and false as a philosophy.

EntirelyPossible

Saying things that are biblically true is not tantamount to pontificating nonsense.

It's not tantamount. It's worse. You are spouting nonsense and affecting peoples lives.

Relativism Belief in invisible people in the sky is useless and false as a philosophy.

FTFY

cofty

godrulz, by your own admission you believe things to be objectively true because the bible says so. You must understand that some of us who know the bible extremely well have come to the conclusion that it is shows no signs of supernatural origins. In fact the evidence otherwise is compelling.

If you want us to take any of your assertions seriously you still have all your work to do to establish that the testimony of the bible is worth anything at all. I don't envy you the task, I have always found that supernatural claims thrive best when people suspend critical thinking.

Life after death

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