The last days.

MrFreeze

In Matthew, Jesus lines out all the signs of the last days. He puts a stipulation on it saying that nobody will know the day or the hour. Does that not mean that nobody could know the last days as well? I think the Jws put too much literal meaning into it. JWs say last days begin in 1914 but Jesus said nobody would know the day or the hour. Would that not also apply to the last days as well? All of the signs Jesus listed are things that have occurred throughout history. Do you think maybe Jesus meant that "as long as these types of things are occurring, be on the watch"? He was not talking about any particular span of time. Or do you think his prophecy only refers to Jerusalems destruction and not any fulfillment past that.

jair_irwin

Interesting question

LostGeneration

Read Luke 21:8

Then look up in the WT CD-Rom how many times they comment on that scripture. I think they refer to it once in the 60's.

They know they are violating that scripture by all of their last days fearmongering, that is why they never talk about it.

Larsinger58

This question ignores fundamental CHRONOLOGY.

Three prophecies point to the specific YEAR of the 2nd coming:

1. The "7 times" prophecy.

2. The "70 weeks" prophecy.

3. The "1335 days" prophecy.

So when the Bible says nobody knows the DAY nor HOUR it clearly is specific and not allegorical. That is, it is specifically talking about the actual DAY and HOUR and not a general reference that that a less specific time, such as the month or year would not be fulfilled.

So we know the year and month. Per accurate Bible chronology, the messiah must arrive sometime between November 30, 1992 and April 6 (Passover) 1993. That does not contradict not knowing the DAY or HOUR.

LS

MrFreeze

Yeah Lars BUT apparently the Great Tribuation is supposed to take place over a span of time and not be one moment in time. How can you even be sure those prophecies were not just prophecies for their time? Who says they have to have a greater fulfillment? Also, day and hour in the Bible often means a time period and not a literal day or hour.

ProdigalSon

The one definitive marker about Jesus' prophecies, as recorded in the Bible, that would put their fulfillment in our time period is his usage of the term "end of the age". This of course gets lost on JW's because of the bad translation of the NWT, combined with their demonization of the zodiac. Christ is returning for sure, but to recognize it you have to know what it is. JW's are looking for a bearded white dude on a white horse with a sword protruding out of his mouth. Instead it comes invisibly in human consciousness.

ballistic

Now I've made this point before; when Jesus says "no one knows the day or the hour", he means not the angels in heaven nor the man nor woman.

If there was a simple calculation like 7000 years or whatever, the angels could have worked it out. Go figure.

doubtful

In Matthew, Jesus lines out all the signs of the last days. He puts a stipulation on it saying that nobody will know the day or the hour. Does that not mean that nobody could know the last days as well? I think the Jws put too much literal meaning into it. JWs say last days begin in 1914 but Jesus said nobody would know the day or the hour. Would that not also apply to the last days as well? All of the signs Jesus listed are things that have occurred throughout history. Do you think maybe Jesus meant that "as long as these types of things are occurring, be on the watch"? He was not talking about any particular span of time. Or do you think his prophecy only refers to Jerusalems destruction and not any fulfillment past that.

Mr. Freeze,

The WT has a very easy way around this. Jesus said no one knew the day or hour. He did not say that his followers would not recognize the general time period, or that they wouldn't discern when the time was approaching. To the contrary, he gave them many signs which would mark the time period of the tribulation leading to his second coming..which the NTW conveniently translates as "presence". He specifically stated that they would be able to recognize the time of the end just as one can recognize a season based on observable changes in the weather.

So, the GB has no problems with claiming that we are in the "last days". Nor do they even have a problem predicting a certain year, since Jesus' words only exclude the possibility of predicting the very day or hour.

Now, if they prophesied that Armaggedon was going to occur on June 14th, 2017 at 8:00 PM, then they'd have a problem.

The big picture however is that they are waiting around for nothing. Jesus promised his return was to be imminent in the first century. He prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and the preceding events...and then what? He said immediately following those days, celestial phenomena would occur, and he would appear in Heaven coming in heavenly glory with his angels to execute judgement against the wicked.

A few verses later, he says that all these things would occur before the generation of his day passed away. All those things naturally would include everything he predicted which preceded this proclamation. That would include both the destruction of Jerusalem, AND his Second Coming.

Yet, his Second Coming or Advent never happened. 2,000 years have passed and it still hasn't happened!

Bottom line - This was a false prophecy. He never came back and he's never going to. So don't hold your breath.

MrFreeze

I dont personally believe Jesus is ever coming back. I was just looking at another way the JWs manipulate scriptures. You bring up some valid points.

wobble

In my opinion, these words were invented in a smokey room in Jerusalem in the early 80's of the 1st century, as "Matthew" concocted his "Gospel".

Matt's agenda was to further the Cult of Jesus, the Temple had been destroyed, the religion of the Jewish people was only to be preseved by the Diaspora. If at all. To move the jewish religion on, and yet preserve its main features, using the method of growing this new cult, seems a good idea to Matt.

Matt invents a lot of things that supposedly happened in Jesus life to prove that he is the Messiah of the Hebrew scriptures, a seeming prophecy about the doom of the Temple is a good device, as Jesus is dead ,references to his "return" will also keep the faithful in thrall to the cult.

That is probably very close to reality.

Let us assume for a moment that Jesus did utter an "End Times" prophecy in similar words to the one we have, there is still no reason to think that it would begin to be fulfilled in our time.

Lars (see drivil above)and others, have had it shown to them time and time again that the Bible contains nothing that points to our time in history without employing the most twisted and tortuous eisegesis.

The last days.

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