Why the stunning lack of accurate, historical evidence for Jesus Christ?

by nicolaou 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ixthis
    ixthis

    "Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was a doer of surprising feats - a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."

    Source: Antiquities of the Jews 18.3.3 (Flavius Josephus)

    " Historians say Flavius Josephus (37-97) born into a priestly Jewish family and was not a Christian.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Jesus' life wasn't the main event. His death, resurrection and second coming are the very core of Christian teaching. The miracles merely show the import and inbreaking of the kingdom of God.

    Jesus did not even start his ministry at 30. Is a nuclear physicist or doctor that find the cure for cancer, toiling in obscurity, not documented because jerks like Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton have notoriety? Celebrity is not a sign of import.

    Jesus was outside the power structures. He challenged them and died for doing so. The crucified do not write history. The Risen Christ lives in every soul. His presence has been felt by many throughout many generations.

    Considering the times and lack of press, we know quite a bit about Jesus. What do we know about his thrid cousin four times removed? Who was his teacher? Who did apprenticeships at the same time he did? The Church taught the essentials.

    I consider myself a historical Jesus buff. The historical Jesus has little importance. It is the risen Christ the church proclaims.

  • ixthis
    ixthis

    The following quote comes from a letter sent to Minucius Fundanus, proconsul of Asia, by Hadrian, Imperator Caesar Trainus*, about how to treat Christians:

    Written A. D. 76 - 136 -

    "I do not wish, therefore, that the matter should be ignored without examination, so that these men may not be harassed, nor an opportunity given for malicious proceedings to be offered to informers. If, therefore, the provincials can clearly show their charges against these Christians, so as to answer before the tribunal, let them pursue this course only, but not just petitions, and mere outcries against Christians. For it is more fitting, if any one brings an accusation, that you should examine it."

    * Hadrian, Imperator Caesar Trainus, (AD 76-138), was considered a man of culture and the arts. It appears he preferred peace rather than war.

  • ixthis
    ixthis

    Emperor Trajan (AD 53 - 117)*

    "The method you have used, my dear Pliny, in investigating the cases of those who are accused of being Christians is extremely proper. No search should be made for these people; when they are accused and found to be guilty they must be punished; with the restriction, however, that when the individual denies he is a Christian, and gives proof that he is not (that is, by adoring our gods) he shall be pardoned on the ground of repentance, even though he may have formerly incurred suspicion. Documents without the accuser's signature must not be admitted in evidence against anyone, since this introduces a very dangerous precedent, and is by no means consistent with the spirit of the age."

    Source: Pliny letters X, 97.

    * Imperator Caesar Divi Nervae Filius Nerva Traianus, was one of the most famous Roman emperors of all time. His reputation as a successful military strategist is demonstrated by his military exploits, which expanded the Roman boundaries to the Persian Gulf. The quote above is a reply to Pliny, who had asked for directions in how to treat the Christians

  • ixthis
    ixthis

    Then there is the historical records of Pontius Pilate (1BC - circa AD 37). We all know who he was but just in case, he was the fifth Roman procurator of Judea (26-36AD), under Emperor Tiberius, who sentenced Jesus to death by crucifixion.

    The quotes below refer to the Acts of Pontius Pilate, a document that is now missing (Coincidence or conspiracy). Its existence is strongly supported by Epiphanius (Heresies 50.1), Justin Martyr (First Apology) and Tertullian (Apology).

    First Apology 48: "'At His coming the lame will leap as a deer, and the stammering tongue will clearly speak: the blind will see, and the lepers will be healed; and the dead will rise, and walk.' And that He did those things, you can learn from the Acts of Pontius Pilate."

    First Apology 35: '''They pierced my hands and my feet,' was used in reference to the nails of the cross which were driven into His hands and feet. And. . . they cast lots for His clothes, and after they crucified Him distributed it among them. And that these things did happen , you can ascertain from the Acts of Pontius Pilate.'

  • ixthis
    ixthis

    There is even evidence of Jesus Christ historical existance within The Talmud.

    The Talmud ("teaching" or "study") is a multi-volume compilation containing the Mishnah (oral legal teachings) and Jewish commentary on the Mishnah (Gemara). It is the basis of Jewish religious life. The accepted version was compiled by Rabbis Akiba (died AD 135) and Meir and completed by Rabbi Judah in AD 200.

    "On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged. . . but since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."

    Babylonia Sanhedrin 43A

    -------------------------------

    Evidence through Gaius Suetonius Tranquilla a Roman historian (AD 117-138) under Hadrian (AD 76-138). He was also the secretary of state and authored a book entitled Life of Claudius.

    Written 41-54AD:

    "Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christ], he [Claudius] expelled them from the city [Rome]." -- Life of Claudius.

    "Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief." -- Life of Claudius.

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    ixthis: All the above works you mention were written after the death of historical Jesus by people that weren't eye witnesses, not much different from what bible accounts are themselves. These stories can be compared to what wts writes about Russell today or taken from sources like JWs today who would describe Russell from today's publications which have nothing to do with real Russell and his early work.

    Now I found the Acts of Pontius Pilot interesting point. I haven't researched it nor heard of it earlier. Quick wiki search gives some light on the topic which obviously doesn't give enough evidence for one to jump to the conclusion that historical Jesus was same as described by the gospels. So gospel Jesus is still faith based with no historical backing. I'm not an atheist but am agnostic so while I can entertain the idea of God I can't base my belief system on weak stories.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Pilate

  • ixthis
    ixthis

    diamondiiz - the question in this thread is not whether the historical Jesus Christ and the Biblical Jesus Christ are the same. The specific question posted is whether there is historical evidence to support a historical Jesus Christ.

    The answer to that is YES and it has been demonstrated with at least six historical records (from non-Christian sources) ... I believe that there should not be religious or philosophical arguments swaying opinions through any posts in this thread and I have certainly avoided doing that for this discussion.

    Just facts. What people do with those facts is there decision but those historical records do demonstrate that a historical Jesus Christ existed.

    Peace my friend

    :)

  • whereami
    whereami
  • smiddy
    smiddy

    According to the bible the Lord God Almighty( Jehovah,Yahweh etc. ) is responsible for the preservation and inspiration of the Sacred Scriptures,so why is their no more concrete evidence,indisputable proof, of an existing Jesus messiah in the 1st century Why did not Jesus the son of God write any of his golden rules????

    If Jesus was such an important figure in human history and the son of God why is it left to imperfect human beings to defend him,who the scripture says "Do not put your trust in knobles or the son of man whom no salvation belongs" Ps.146:3

    smiddy

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