by Star tiger 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Zidd, were you a raised in? I have noted that being raised in the org has a huge affect on belief in God and spirituality after one leaves. When people really push atheism after leaving, I ask if they were raised in. The majority of the answers are yes. When the only God you've known since birth is a fake, evil god, it almost makes sense for someone to think there is no god.
The Christian god does not exist. Get over it.
God is God to everyone.
I can't agree with the belief that we're spiritual beings
I stated that most of us are spiritual beings. I remember on JWD an atheist got all over the theists for thinking he wasn't spiritual.
When people really push atheism after leaving, I ask if they were raised in. The majority of the answers are yes.
Interesting observation, Flyinghighnow. I was raised in with both "sets" of grandparents staunch JWs. I would classify myself more of an agnostic who can't leave well alone. Athiesm makes more sense to me at one level, but scares the hell out of me at another (BTW I don't consider this a problem to be solved). I know I do not believe the Jehovah of the Watchtower is unique to that religion. To me the real eyeopener wasn't so much the dishonesty of the Watchtower but the utter blood-soaked savagery of the Old Testament (or Hebrew Scriptures for those purists out there). Jehovah quite frankly is a monster who stalks more than the scaredcats in the Kingdom Hall. He thunders through the corridors of time and place. The slither of light offered by the miscalled Christian God is like a fairy story for adults. More blood and death - but ever so much more civilized (although I'd argue nailing anyone to a stake or cross or anything is an insulting re-run of Old testament violence. Jehovah drips blood and exacts blood.
Flying High Now, I was beaten and bullied into the religion since I was 5 years old. However, the "game-breaker" for me, was when a JW elder [if they were called that in the early 60's...] read Exodus 19: 16-19 from the podium. I instantly recognized that scripture as being a primitive account of a volcanic eruption.
Which meant that the Middle-Eastern 'god'[s] of the bible didn't even know what a volcano was... Which totally eliminates them as being the "creator"[s] of the earth...
Also, when so many, many, MANY people speak of "god", they either forget or have never learned or never realized that people of European, British, African, and Near-Eastern ancestry [to name a few...] would NEVER HAVE KNOWN about this particular Middle-Eastern 'god' if it weren't for Roman conquests.
And the rot spread from the European peoples subjugated by the Imperial and then Byzantine Roman empires, to Asia, the Americas, the Polynesian islands, Australia, and so on...
In other words, if the bible had remained [as it should have!!!] a REGIONAL holy book, you and I and so many others of non-Middle-Eastern ancestry, would NEVER have heard of - or begun worshipping - this Middle Eastern 'god'!!
I am constantly astounded that almost no-one realizes that...
In other words, but for a quirk of history, you and I and practically every person on earth who is now or once was a practicing "Christian", would have been worshipping some OTHER deity, instead!!! And probably believing that THAT 'god' is the "true" one...
But I don't know if you're going to get this, either, because I've brought it up on this board, multiple times, to many people, and NO ONE seems capable of grasping that simple fact!!
Zid
People in effect have responded, "Well, it's there... [the bible and its 'gods'...] So it - 'they' - must be the "true" 'god'!!"
It is a HUGE mental block that most people cannot imagine what the world would be like if the - Let's say, if the Hebrews and "Moses" had been wiped out by that volcanic eruption...
NO bible. It never existed. When the Imperial Roman Empire came along, their policy of tolerance for multiple religions remained. No "conquest by conversion and for conversion" in Europe, the British Isles, Africa, India, Asia, the Polynesian Islands, North and South America...
Think about it.
In such a world, you would never even have CONSIDERED the possibility of there being only one 'god'.
So, in that case, who would you be now? And what would you believe was "true"???
Zid
I do not believe in an exclusive god. I am a Universalist.
Many Christians believe in a Universal God. They do not believe that the entire Bible is inspired or set to pen by God.
I recommend reading "Jehovah Unmasked." Honestly, to believe God is so violent as the Hebrew god Jehovah, is to believe that God is no better than Satan.
I would classify myself more of an agnostic who can't leave well alone. Athiesm makes more sense to me at one level, but scares the hell out of me at another (BTW I don't consider this a problem to be solved).
I would describe myself as Tallulah Bankhead described herself: "I am a high Episcopalian agnostic, with a deep reverence for mystery." I am probably not as agnostic as Miss Bankhead. I am like you, I don't think we need to solve every puzzle or have the answer for everything.
But Flying High Now, if your ancestors hadn't been conquered by Middle-Eastern-god-worshipping Romans - or adherents of that Middle-Eastern god...
You would have a totally different view of spirituality and divinity...
Who would you be if the bible had never existed?
What would you believe if that chain of events that caused a Middle-Eastern religion to bear influence on your life, had never taken place??
Who would you be if the bible had never existed?
Zid the She-Devil
Ziddina, it's not a problem to me to have a different view of God. I do not believe in a typical god, never have. God to me, from the earliest recollections was not much like the hellfire god most of my friends knew. I never believed in hell. Mine was a loving caretaker and grandfatherly figure who loved everyone. It was never a question of being forgiven for anything. I could tell this god's love was unconditional. I never thought he held sins against humankind. I wasn't taught this god, I just knew him. We don't need the Bible to know God. I have never thought that. I still do not think it. God is much bigger than some book.
yup! what zid said!! if it werent for war mongering nations and their gods we would never have heard about jehovah and christianity.
we'd prolly be worshipping the creator and smokin our peace pipes.
jehovah is the god of the jews...mull that one over and smoke it.
