Wait, wasnt the Bible compiled during the Great Apostasy? Why should we trust it then?
These things Prove if Jehovah is guiding and speaking through the JW'S
by Terry 29 Replies latest jw friends
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bartj
I am looking for an answer to this question to Maze on why God allowed a pagan church (according to your own posting of Will Durant) to collate what we know today as the Bible. Regarding the quote about Latin , what a croc... That was what was spoken at the time iirc .
Another question I have is why the WTS have consistently evaded apologising to those who they gave false promise too? I was in the troof before they replaced the mission of the Awake that God would bring the end of this system of things before the generation who saw the events of 1914 would pass away ..
Can you answer why the GB waited until all hope was lost on that prophecy to then bring new light ? You can not honestly tell me that this subject has not been the most studied subject by the WBTS.. Why did God not bring this new light prior to the generation being a hopelessly lost doctrine .. at least that would have shown they were being guided by Holy Spirit!
Also why does the GB not actually act like a FDS and solicit input from others of that SAME CLASS ?? There is absolutely no basis in scripture for one group of men making all doctrinal decisions. Even Fred Franz acknowledges this in one of his talks to Gilead students that Paul did not need the GB's permission to preach to the nations. It was God decision to do this not some bunch of men.. I think if they were humble , acknowledged their error WITHOUT blaming the R&F they would certainly receive more respect.
I won't even start on those lunatics telling people that if you are raped and don't scream you are guilty of sexual sin.. Based a law that has been surpassed by the law of Christ. Where is the mercy there Maze ??
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Maze
It's all there. Read any book on biology. No need to get off topic for something that's been discussed ad nauseam.
I've read plenty of books on biology and no, the evidence is not there to support the theory. The make-shift evidence some accept as evidence for evolution doesn't meet the standards of evidence accepted by those that adhere to modern scientific disciplines. That's why I asked you to present your evidence so I could prove my position. You obviously have none.True, there is no explanation concerning timing in the bible. "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows" Then why did the WT society propose dates over and over? Claiming to be inspired by the Bible, when the Bible says otherwise? This isn't "dancing a gig" or nitpicking, these were major doctrines for a long time.
After 1925, the Watchtower Society had a clearer vision of the future. If some opposers chose to pick apart their research prior to 1925 for inconstancies; knock yourselves out. Sincere truth seekers can see through your unreasonable antics.
I hardly care to defend any church, but looking at history, most literalist religions/churches are founded by genuine people seeking some spiritual truth. Then they organize and become more orthodox and doctrinal. Then corruption eventually seeps in. JW is a very young religion, and we're already seeing these patterns occurring. I suspect things will continue to deteriorate. The way to God/Spiritual truth is not in any earthly organization, but is an internal realization.
What corruption is seeping in?
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mindseye
Wait, wasnt the Bible compiled during the Great Apostasy? Why should we trust it then?
Good point, MrFreeze. The idea of the Bible as some 'pure' text is highly dubious. Due to infighting and political posturing much was left out (in particular, the Gnostic gospels were directly attacked because they posed a threat to church hierarchy).
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sizemik
The way to God/Spiritual truth is not in any earthly organization, but is an internal realization.
How many times does the truth of this statement need to be proved?
@Maze
Information published by Jehovah's Witnesses has a consistent pattern of corresponding to universal truth.
Since you're demanding proof that requires several volumes of information from others . . . how about some "proof" of this statement. The points raised in the OP just for starters . . . you haven't done that yet.
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mindseye
@maze: evidence for evolution doesn't meet the standards of evidence accepted by those that adhere to modern scientific disciplines.
About 99% of scientists accept evolution (Discovery Inst. survey). Here is a list of scientific societies that reject intelligent design:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientific_societies_rejecting_intelligent_design
I venture to guess that they adhere to modern scientific disciplines.
Evidence for evolution include fossils, DNA, Endogenous retroviruses, ring species , etc. More info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
After 1925, the Watchtower Society had a clearer vision of the future. If some opposers chose to pick apart their research prior to 1925 for inconstancies; knock yourselves out. Sincere truth seekers can see through your unreasonable antics.
The changing generation/1914 definition occurred after 1925. As well as the 1975 nonsense. All proof that the WT doesn't have a clearer view of the future than anyone else.
What corruption is seeping in?
Read about the harassment of Raymond Franz for starters. The organization uses the apostate label to suppress freedom of thought and debate, a trait of corruption among governments and religion.
@sizemlk: How many times does the truth of this statement need to be proved?
Eternally, I suppose! homo sapiens are slow learners.
I gotta get some sleep, 'night all.
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Anime Nerd
Maze said, "You're quoting from information published early in the 20th century when Jehovah's Organization was in its early developmental stages."
"The faithful and discreet slave while at times mistaken, clearly outline the criteria for the conclusions they reached while conducting diligent research."
"After 1925, the Watchtower Society had a clearer vision of the future. If some opposers chose to pick apart their research prior to 1925 for inconstancies; knock yourselves out. Sincere truth seekers can see through your unreasonable antics."
Couldn't people say the same things about Harold Camping's Family Radio, a couple of decades from now? 40 years from now someone will be pointing out to a Family Radio follower that the founder of their religion/cult falsely predicted the end of the world in 2011. They will respond with the following:
"You're quoting from information published early in the 21st century when Family Radio was in its early developmental stages."
"Family Radio while at times mistaken, clearly outine the criteria for the conclusions they reached while conducting diligent research."
"After 2011, Family Radio had a clearer vision of the future. If some opposers chose to pick apart their research prior to 2011 for inconsistencies, knock yourselves out. Sincere truth seekers can see through your unreasonable antics."
Maze, would you consider people who follow Harold Camping, to be "sincere truth seekers?" Harold Camping says that all churches have become Apostate, and thus must be abandoned. He believes that sinners are destroyed, or cease to exist, rather than be tormented in hell. He also encourages personal Bible study. Harold Camping's followers have reached an incredible amount of people with their message/preaching work; using billboards, busses, radio, etc. What if Harold Camping is the faithful and discrete slave, and not the Watchtower? (Side Note: I don't really beleve that. Harold Camping is a charismatic cult leader.)
Or do you choose to laugh at Harold Camping and his predictions? Because I see a lot of similarities between Harold Camping and the early history of the Witnessess. Neither of them is guided by Jehovah; and Jehovah isn't speaking through either of them. They are both cults that falsely predicted the end of the world. One cult is just newer than the other.
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fedup
Maze: "After 1925, the Watchtower Society had a clearer vision of the future. If some opposers chose to pick apart their research prior to 1925 for inconstancies; knock yourselves out. Sincere truth seekers can see through your unreasonable antics."
Overlapping Generations?? You can't be serious...
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punkofnice
Not wishing to go off topic but I'm not convinced that alice/Maze or whoever is a real JW.
Yes, I can see the 'watchtower-speak', cult loaded language and 'ad hominem' attacks.
Maze/alice/whoever, uses the usual 'US VS: THEM' lingo = 'Opposers' and 'Apostates' as if the WTB$ is fighting a war against eurasia a vast apostate army. This doesn't exist in real life.
It's simple = The WTB$ is a power hungry money grabbing pyramid big business with a 'brand name' for god and posing as a religion. Yes, they DO use mind control = "Minds must be cleansed" (Watchtower, June 1, 1953, p. 350 par. 24).
Anyone who wishes to help others escape the antichrist evil are labelled as 'opposers' or 'opponents' or 'apostates' etc etc. Maze knows this and is simply trying to provoke argument on the forum.
@MAZE - what is your avatar? I can't quite make it out......................
Anyway BTTT -
Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. ... Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" -
Band on the Run
Universal truth. What an objective lie! Of course, brainwashed people don't realize they are brainwashed.
Terry,
I enjoy your posts so much. The only problem I see is that with the exception of Maze, you are preaching to the choir here. It is very telling to me that JWs are welcome here (officially and by many members) even though they should not be here according to the Society. We cannot post our ideas, opinions or facts at the JW site. I wonder why.
I read a lot of English history. The Tudor period was very bloodly. Henry VIII constantly executed his highest advisors and wives. What strikes me as they stepped upon the scaffold, the condemned were expected to utter theri last words and pay the executioners for a quick beheading without agony. Knowing there would be no reprieve, they almost universally proclaimed what a great king Henry was and how they were so bad. I suppose they feared for their families after their demise.
I saw my brother go from very unhappy forced Witness to brainwashed Maoist in a few years. Everything has faults and foibles but the brainwashed are incapable of acknowledging the fact. There is being an optimist and then being a polyanna.