I am absolutely certain Jesus sees the Society as the Great Apostate. You may have time to repent and change your ways before his Coming.
I'm new to the whole JW religion - Can someone please explain the basics?
by Jackals 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Band on the Run
Maze,
What the heck is the New Statesman? The Witnesses have a long and undistinguished record of distorting content and citations to bolster their view. I fell for it in grade school. All the quotes to outside scientists and world leaders impressed me. One day I was able to read those books and magazines. They certainly did not say what the Witnesses falsely led people to believe.
What is the New Statesman against the huge body of literature that shows, in part, a genetic link? There is no immorality in being gay. Fully gay the way others can be heterosexual and have oral sex.
What are you doing here? You don't what other Witnesses, maybe with authority from the WTBTS officially, are monitoring posts. Be careful you cannot be identified. You are posting furtively.
I studied New Testament in college for fun. It shocked me that a private college would want to teach the Bible. We were assigned the Bible as a primary source. Before the course, I hated the culture of the Witnesses and thought most doctrines farfetched and ridiculous. I still had respect for some scholarship and teaching. We had to read consecutive verses. I found the Witnesses print outright lies about the Bible. I need no study aid to see what happened. It shocked me. I kept running to the pay phone to call home collect and quote my family what the Bible said.
Between the Bible and the WTBTS, I choose the Bible.
Between an odd phrase of Paul's, and Paul's main thrust which contradicts the odd thought, I choose his main point.
All of this rests on authority. What proof is there that the Witnesses ever represented God in any capacity? Christ is Lord God. The earliest church proclaimed this. Stephen never would have been stoned to death if he were teaching the Witness line. He said something earth shattering that shook the Temple authorities to their core and beyond.
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steve2
jacks, welcome:
Maze's fellowship here is perhaps a classic example of the cramped and potentially hypocritical lifestyle the Watchtower fosters. Maze knows that his posting here cannot be disclosed to his local congregation so he in effect leads a "double life".
He justifies the hypocrisy in the "service" of reaching out to others with the "truth". He is not the first - and he won't be the last - with an elastic tolerance of hypocrisy if it gets the self-appointed job done. Apparently in this regard, he agrees with many here: the JW's Governing Body doesn't know what it's talking about when it consistently warns against ant-JW websites. He too is selectively immune to their tentacular outreach.
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yknot
Howdy...
I am an active JW.....
First, pay no attention to Rachel-Alice-Spade-Numerous Other Alias- all of which were banned from the forum-MAZE (she has pretty jaded history and if this was a scene from the Wiz of Oz she would be the voice saying 'pay no attention to the man behind the curtain')........Luv and Huggles Rach really but you are misleading Jack.
Your poor beloved lil Timmy...... he isn't a fully 'conscious' JW yet.
No sweety homosexuality isn't permitted in the WTS except under strict celibacy , masturbation which is already considered 'unclean' by hetero standards is doubly unclean if involving homosexual fantasies.....
So your boy Tim he is 'inactive' in his faith (assuming he is either born/raised JW)....but still believes...
Here is what Tim probably believes : (use below to engage in a conversation with him, let him tell you what he believes is his religion's beliefs)
Jesus enthroned in 1914 (but we didn't teach that in 1914, in 1914 we taught 1878 was enthronment..changed it to 1914 in the 1920s)
Jesus second coming was invisible and also occured in 1914 (also not taught in 1914 rather the parousia was 1874 until 1943 when it was changed to 1914)
Jesus inspected all the religions professing to be 'Christian' 1918.
In 1919 Jesus names the WTS as worthy of being God's sole channel on earth.
He disavows trinity, hellfire and immortality of soul.
The 144,000 mention in Revelations are a literal group who act as joint-heirs with Christ. (we call them 'anointed')
Jesus is NOT your or his mediator, Jesus only mediates for the 'anointed'
The millennial reign is a future event referred to as the 'new system' in which many will be resurrected into a paradise earth and will grow to perfection and the point where they are equal to what Adam was in Eden and then Satan is released to wreck havoc and lead astray the faithful.
Armageddon is right around the corner, the end is nigh.
You nor he can understand the Bible without the aid of the WTS publications/direction/guidance.
Only those non-anointed in association (ie JWs) with the "slave" (ie Governing Body, anointed, WTS) will be saved during Armageddon......if you two are still alive and active homosexuals when Armageddon comes yall will be 'birdfood'
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Here is another article from the same magazine quoted by Maze (Awake!) but unlike her 1996 commentary lets look at what the WTS had to say about homosexuality in it's Dec 2010 edition.........
*** g12/10 pp.22-24 How Can I Explain the Bible’s View of Homosexuality?***
Young People Ask
How Can I Explain the Bible’s View of Homosexuality?
The awards ceremony erupts into a frenzy when two popular actresses greet each other with a passionate kiss! Onlookers gasp in shock and then cheer in support. Gays call it a triumph. Skeptics call it a publicity stunt. Whichever it is, video clips of the kiss will be aired repeatedly on TV newscasts—and elicit millions of hits on the Internet—for days to come.
AS ILLUSTRATED in the above scenario, few events create more media buzz than when a celebrity comes out as being gay, lesbian, or bisexual. Some people praise such ones for their courage; others condemn them for their debauchery. Between the two extremes, many view homosexuality as nothing more than an alternative lifestyle. “When I was in school,” says Daniel, 21, “even straight kids felt that if you had a problem with the idea of homosexuality, you were prejudiced and judgmental.”
Attitudes about homosexuality may differ from one generation to another or from one land to another. But Christians aren’t “carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching.” (Ephesians 4:14) Instead, they adhere to the Bible’s view.
What is the Bible’s view of homosexuality? If you live by the Bible’s moral code, how can you respond to those who label you prejudiced, judgmental, or even homophobic? Consider the following questions and possible responses.
What does the Bible say about homosexuality? The Bible makes it clear that God designed sex to be engaged in only between a male and a female and only within the arrangement of marriage. (Genesis 1:27, 28; Leviticus 18:22; Proverbs 5:18, 19) When the Bible condemns fornication, it is referring to both homosexual and heterosexual conduct.—Galatians 5:19-21.
If someone asks: “What’s your view of homosexuality?”
You might reply: “I don’t hate homosexuals, but I can’t approve of their conduct.”
• Remember: If you’re guided by the Bible’s moral code, then thatisyourlifestylechoice,andyouhavearighttoit. (Joshua 24:15) Don’t feel ashamed of your view.—Psalm 119:46.
Shouldn’t Christians treat all people with respect, regardless of their sexual orientation? Absolutely. The Bible says: “Honor men of all sorts” or, as Today’sEnglishVersion renders it, “Respect everyone.” (1 Peter 2:17) Therefore, Christiansarenothomophobic. They show kindness to all people, including those who are gay.—Matthew 7:12.
If someone asks: “Doesn’t your view of homosexuality encourage prejudice against gays?”
You might reply: “Not at all. I reject homosexual conduct, not people.”
• You could add: “To illustrate it, I also choose not to smoke. In fact, I find the very idea of it repugnant. But suppose you’re a smoker and you feel differently. I wouldn’t be prejudiced against you for your view, just as I’m sure you wouldn’t be prejudiced against me for my view—am I right? The same principle applies to our differing views of homosexuality.”
Didn’t Jesus preach tolerance? If so, shouldn’t Christians take a permissive view of homosexuality? Jesus didn’t encourage his followers to accept any and all lifestyles. Rather, he taught that the way to salvation is open to “everyone exercisingfaithinhim.” (John 3:16) Exercising faith in Jesus includes conforming to God’s moral code, which forbids certain types of conduct—including homosexuality.—Romans 1:26, 27.
If someone says: “Homosexuals can’t change their orientation; they’re born that way.”
You might reply: “The Bible doesn’t comment on the biology of homosexuals, although it acknowledges that some traits are deeply ingrained. (2 Corinthians 10:4, 5) Even if some are oriented toward the same sex, the Bible tells Christians to shun homosexual acts.”
• Suggestion: Rather than get ensnared in a debate about the cause of homosexual desires, emphasize that the Bible prohibits homosexual conduct. To make a comparison, you could say: “You know, many claim that violent behavior can have a genetic root and that as a result, some people are predisposed to it. (Proverbs 29:22) What if that was true? As you might know, the Bible condemns fits of anger. (Psalm 37:8; Ephesians 4:31) Is that standard unfair just because some may be inclined toward violence?”
How could God tell someone who is attracted to the same sex to shun homosexuality? That sounds cruel. Such reasoning is based on the flawed notion that humans must act on their sexual impulses. The Bible dignifies humans by assuring them that they can choose not to act on their improper sexual urges if they truly want to.—Colossians 3:5.
If someone says: “Even if you’re not gay, you should change your view of homosexuality.”
You might reply: “Suppose I didn’t approve of gambling but you did. Would it be reasonable for you to insist that I change my view, simply because millions of people choose to gamble?”
• Remember this: Most people (including homosexuals) have some ethical code that causes them to deplore certain things—perhaps fraud, injustice, or war. The Bible prohibits those behaviors; it also draws the line at certain types of sexual conduct, including homosexuality.—1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
The Bible is not unreasonable nor does it promote prejudice. It simply directs those with same-sex urges to do the same thing that is required of those with an opposite-sex attraction—to “flee from fornication.”—1 Corinthians 6:18.
The fact is, millions of heterosexuals who wish to conform to the Bible’s standards employ self-control despite any temptations they might face. Their numbers include many who are single with little prospect of marriage and many who are married to a disabled partner who is unable to function sexually. They are able to live happily without fulfilling their sexual urges. Those with homosexual inclinations can do the same if they truly want to please God.—Deuteronomy 30:19.
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sizemik
Thank you Maze for your input . . . .
You will see foul mouths and evidence of ungodliness here. One of the more popular threads right now reads: An open letter to the Governing Body: Go F*ck Yourselves
I too would encourage you to read this post . . . it is a fine example of how a high-control religious cult sets about destroying the love and trust inside an otherwise loving family.
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nugget
I think reading TimothyT posts indicates that he is exiting the reigion and is happy and confident about his sexuality. You two must make your own judgements about your relationship it really is not our place to comment on whether you can make a go of it or not.You are grown ups and can decide for yourselves.
What I would say is the religion does damage a lot of us making us more cynical than most. But it is possible for ex witnesses to be rational sane people.
You sound just as great as Timothy said.
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Sayswho
CANTLEAVE...Please thoroughly investigate the faith before being coerced into joining it. You have nothing to lose except some well spent time. If you join you could lose a great deal more.
- Nice summaries and right to the point by many posters...
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Honesty
Apologies if this seems like a naive thing to say, but if I reconcile being gay with God and ask for his forgiveness, is that not adequate?
Jack
According to the Bible it is.
However, a JW who comes out and admits that he or she is gay will be subjected to a couple of 'readjustment' sesions with 3 elders.
If the 'readjustment' doesn't take, the JW is kicked to the curb like trash along with the rest of humanity that is not JW.
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Jackals
Thanks Nugget - Whilst I know Tim is putting plans in place to leave the JWs at some point, I still thought it would be useful for me to understand what he's been living for the past 23 years. I'm under no illusion that it'll be an easy or quick process, I felt it best to educate myself about the organisation.
Jack
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St George of England
Jack - I am in my mid 60's and was raised as a JW and I am currently trapped in the organisation due to wife and family; you cannot easily walk away when you find it is NOT the truth.
If you form a relationship with this friend, remember that at anytime in the future he may have a change of heart and go running back to the organisation. Where would that leave you?
My advice would be:
- Stay away from any Kingdom Hall
- Stay away from any JW
- Stay away from anyone who has ever been a JW
I will be slagged off as usual for the above comments but it is genuinely the best advice based on a lifetimes experience!
George
