Religious Reform (page 3)

elderelite

awww maze..... are you ducking me again.....? play fair sweetie...... i just want to see that you get the help you need to remain firm in the faith

poopsiecakes

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia and other sources, Benedict IX was around 18 to 20 years old when made pontiff, although some sources claim 11 or 12.

Oh goody! So we can delve into history to prove that a religion is false? Let the games begin.

Who wants to go first?

Maze

Hello again, Maze!

I'll ignore thefact that your post is actually about bashing other churches and just answer the question.

It doesn't matter much that the Watchtower B&TS (which you haven't shown to be "Jehovah's Organization") teaches inconsistant and demonstably wrong doctrine, except when lives are placed at risk.

The level of control by entirely fallible men is a concern, but there will always be those who want external reassurance rather than to think for themselves.

The real problem is shunning. Not disfellowshipping - any church can break ties with a non-conforming member - but SHUNNING.

Breaking up families over beliefs is wrong. Teaching intolerance of the beliefs of others is wrong. Using affection within family and between friends as blackmail is wrong.

If you have "the truth" and God's protection, why do the beliefs of others need to be feared?

Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to God's Word

Yeah, sure. The bits that suit the GB at the time anyway. God is love and Jesus did not shun anyone.

Retro

Your concerns about divisions within a family were not instituted by Jehovah's Witnesses. The real question is who is in the wrong for causing the division.

“Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it. Matthew 10:32-39

But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 1 Corinthians 5:11

mrsjones5

Retrovirus

thanks for the reply, Maze.

Your concerns about divisions within a family were not instituted by Jehovah's Witnesses. The real question is who is in the wrong for causing the division

No, that is not the real question. If there is a difference of opinion, how do you define "who is in the wrong"? Or even what "wrong" means? The issue is respect or others' opinions and tolerance.

Matt 10 32-39 - is not relevant to my concerns. That is about whether we love God over family and friends. It does not say you must shun someone who worships differently. Why cannot two people love God and believe differently?

But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 1 Corinthians 5:

A person whose beliefs differ from yours is not necessarily a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolator etc. Nor is it necessary to shun a person to "quit mixing in company" with him or her.

Jesus gave the example, and he spoke courteously to people in all walks of life. If he didn't judge, why do you do so?

Which still leaves the point unrefuted: Watchtower B&TS is wrong to promote shunning.

ABibleStudent

Maze - All throughout human history, Jehovah has had a visible organization on earth to represent his interests. This was the case between Jehovah and the nation of natural Israel. Jehovah foretold the new covenant by the prophet Jeremiah in the seventh century B.C.E., stating that it would not be like the Law covenant, which Israel broke. This was the establishment of Christianity. First century Christianity was corrupted soon after the last apostle died as Jesus prophesied.

Hi Maze, have you read what Jesus Christ said in the Gospels or Acts in the NT? Did you miss the parts where Our Father through Jesus Christ formed a new covenant with believers, because Jesus Christ (and we can assume Our Father) was very displeased with how the Jewish religious leaders were behaving. You can cherry-pick Bible verses all day long like the WTBTS, but Jesus Christ will be able to see what is in your heart on judgement day. How do you explain away what Jesus Christ said in John 16:5-16? Jesus Christ promised that Our Father would send the Holy Spirit, not the WTBTS to replace the Jewish leadership.

John 16:5-16 (NIV 2008) 5 “Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt [a] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
16 “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

ABibleStudent

dgp

Question from the worldly. Is it like this when you talk to an active Jehovah's witness?

"Say one thing about the organization that needs reform".

"It is beyond reform. It needs to be dumped".

"So far, no one has mentioned one thing about the organization that needs reform".

NewChapter

However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, iflocal privacy laws permit.

Well, maybe reform can begin here. Rank and file witnesses are expected to sacrifice their life and freedom to uphold WT standards, BUT Watchtower only need act if local privacy laws permit.

Perhaps the leaders should suffer the same consequences as they expect the average JW to suffer.

NC

metatron

Hilarious! I asked if he was so stupid as to ignore the obvious evidence that the Organization is corrupt and disfellowshipping ineffective, using the words of the GB and this site as posted on by elders.

I got my answer!

metatron

Yan Bibiyan

All throughout human history, Jehovah has had a visible organization on earth to represent his interests.

...and in, say 1840, that organization was?

( <-Yan Bibiyan holding breath for an answer from Maze)

Religious Reform

Share this