You may want to break out a pre_1995 awake and show her the inside masthead where is says creators promise that the generation of 1914 will not pass away. This shows they made a promise in God's name that the end would come before all these people died. Then show her the 1984 WT with the picture of over 10 of these people all from bethel with the same caption. Then explain to her these people gave up thier hopes dreams aspirations based on this promise and they were lied to.
Last chance to make an impact! Help me please....
by Anon_SA1 16 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
redvip2000
It was the lack of love that made me understand, not doctrines.
And this is really the key. For most JWs and even believers in God, is not about evidence or facts. For if that was the case most would see the fallacies fairly easily. It's about emotional attachment to it.
Unless someone is willing to part ways with the emotional connection, they will simply not see it - not matter how much evidence you present. For many, there has to be an event which causes them to be hurt, or disgruntled. This stress on the emotional connection to it, will cause them to consider rational thinking
-
Clambake
I had a chat with an elder the other day about the new understanding about Mog and Magog. He basically told me a group of nations from central Asia to North Africa would come to together in a final battle against gods people in a final battle once all religion was illegal.
I then told him in the bible Israel and the church are two different things. This group of nations is coming together to destroy the Jewish people in the land of Israel. If you look at the trouble in the world today ( Yemen, Syria, Libya, Iraq ) where do you think this all leading ??
For people that are so in love with doomsday with the end being so near, their actual beliefs on the subject are actually quite stupid in light of the events of today. I just saw a glimmer wow we are stupid in his eyes.
If the witness in question is just in love with the doomsday situation ( some are, some are not ) it is good way to plant a seed.
-
DesirousOfChange
They'll never "see it" until they want to start looking for it themselves.
Doc
-
ABibleStudent
Hi Anon_SA1, It is probably a lost cause asking your friend simple questions for the last time, unless your friend already feels resentful about how the Watchtower/elders/other JWs treat her.
How about asking her, " Why are you a JW? Is it for social reasons or Watchtower doctrine? (wait for a response) What would cause you doubts about being a JW? (wait for a response)"
If she is a social JW, then ask her "Why are you afraid to have more fun as a non-JW? (wait for a response) {List things that she enjoys that JWs frown on JWs doing] Aren't you tired of being asked to do more or wait on Jehovah when you see that something should be changed now? (wait for a response) What miracles has the Watchtower done to prove it is Jehovah's Earthly organization instead of another religion, like the Catholic Church?"
If she is a a JW because the Watchtower has the "Truth", then ask her, "What miracles has the Watchtower done to prove it is Jehovah's Earthly organization instead of another religion, like the Catholic Church? (wait for a response) What "Truths" has the Watchtower instructed you about that you couldn't have discovered by reading the Bible and discussing with your friends and family?"
Best of wishes.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
-
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
It's hard to know what, if anything, will get through to any one JW. Since you've already unsuccessfully tried to reason on JW history, doctrine, and false prophecies, those probably won't be any more successful in your next conversation.
I've never knowingly gone into a "last chance" conversation like you've described. But theoretically, the closest I've been, I would try to make the conversation as positive, true, personal as possible... and rather distanced from anything JW. If, for example, it were my cousin:
"We've certainly been through a lot together. We spent a lot of time together as kids. Remember when you asked me to explain to you what 'f**k' means? [other reminiscing goes here] Later we went in different directions. You moved away. I moved away to bethel. But whenever we got together, it was like we picked up where we left off. We're family, the ties that bind... and gag. LOL.
"One of my regrets is that I wasn't good about keeping in touch with you or most of the important people from my younger days while I was in bethel. When I finally left bethel, I tried to make the best of what my life had become. But I wasn't happy. And the harder I tried to be happy, the unhappier I became. I've told you enough of the reasons I wasn't happy and why my life had taken the direction that it has. Unfortunately, I now understand that those reasons that I mentioned to you, have made you unhappy and uncomfortable with me. I want you to be happy. So if that means that you will be happier by not talking to me and not seeing me, so be it. It doesn't make me happy to not be a part of your life, but I can't go back to living in the miserable shroud of unhappiness that I used to live in"
I'd have much more to say, of course, but I'm thinking I'd go for the non-cult persona if it's still alive in there somewhere to get them to laugh and cry. If they want to talk about beliefs, okay, I might go there, but not far. I already know what JWs believe and that they're programmed to question and attack what I would present as my beliefs. So I'd be more concerned about just trying to keep things open for future contact.
Not sure if that's any help, Anon. But good luck!
-
steve2
You say, "I'm desperate to leave a lasting impression on her".
This one excerpt says it all. You are not 'on a friendship' so to speak, but 'on a mission'. Why ever would a nonJW be desperate? Desperation is for Witnesses and other fundamentalists. Desperation cannot see the wood for the trees or the friendship for the doctrine. It raises a non-existing bogey-man and operates out of fear.
I'm afraid the only advice I'd give a non-JW who is "desperate" is to slow right down and have a look at how you've become consumed with needing to "reach" her. You've got the need-to-convince disease and it's eating you up.
Unlike the fundamentalist 'urgency' mentality, you've got all the time in the world and time is literally on your side.
You don't need a prepared argument against the Witnesses; instead get yourself a nice, invigorating strong coffee, a lovely setting and time to actually stop the madness and smell the roses.