by Jokemyster 44 Replies latest jw friends
Friend,
So if this is true that there were christians amongst Adventists and Baptists at that time, are you saying that the Society akknowlegdes that Christians are found also in other religions other than the WTBTS.
Or is this a bunch of double talk so as not to say what is really meant?
SC
So if this is true that there were christians amongst Adventists and Baptists at that time, are you saying that the Society acknowledges that Christians are found also in other religions other than the WTBTS.
What are you asking here?
Statement: There were Christians n Rome
Conclusion: There are Christians in Rome.
Perhaps I misunderstand your question. If I correctly understand it then my illustration should clarify it and my answer is, “No.” The Society does not teach that today Christians can be found in other religions. Instead, as I said earlier, they teach that since 1918/9 Jehovah’s Witnesses (formerly Bible Students) exclusively represent the Christianity found in the Bible. In that case, if someone were Christian then they would choose association with Jehovah’s Witnesses. That is the idea promulgated.
As an aside, though the Society teaches that Jehovah’s Witnesses uniquely teach and practice the Christianity of the Bible, they do not teach that Jehovah will only judge them as acceptable. (See Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Twentieth Century, page 29)
Or is this a bunch of double talk so as not to say what is really meant?
Hopefully I do not engage in double talk.
Friend
Dear Friend and SC:
Being on pain medication produces useless thoughts as this old joke:
St. Peter was ushering some newcomers around Heaven explaining the set up and such. There was a long corridor with many closed doors with names such as Catholics, Baptists, Anglican, etc. on them. He explained that it helped new ones to be with ones like themselves.
They passed a door with no name on it. Newcomer asked who was in that room and why no name?
"Ssshhhh, Those are Jehovah's Witnesses - and they think they're the only ones here."
Just a little pain medication humor injected here!
Friend,
Beings we as Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians as taught by the Society, that would mean that everyone outside our organization are from Satan. This is something I have had a major problem with. I am to assume because the Society teaches that those outside our fold are from Satan. My family who are not JWs, whom I love very much and are as moral and God fearing people as many in my congregation, I must say, because the Society tells me they are not one of us, they are from Satan?
Is it that all the Bible Students who still believe in C.T.Russells works and Russell himself as Gods messenger, the founder of our religion, is from Satan also. After all The Bible Students are not Jehovah's Witnesses. I know some Bible Students personally. Am I to tell them that because they follow the teachings of the founder of the WTBTS, they are of Satan. What does that make us?
Friend,
Also, I have Jehovah's Witnesses in the Twentieth Century and saw the qoute. This seems to me a staement that does not coincide with what the WTBTS actually teaches. For instance, I have several qoutes from the Society that claims that outside Jehovah's organization there is no place else to go for salvation and true joy. If one does not have salvation in Christ, how can they be saved outside of that salvation?
Please see;
WT 9/15/1993,p.22
Our Kingdom Ministry 11/1990,p.1
WT 12/1/1981,p.27
This qoute astounds me, [YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARD THE ANNOINTED IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR WHETHER YOU GO INTO EVERLASTING CUTTING OFF OR EVERLASTING LIFE. WT 8/1/1981,P 26
It is obvious that those who are not JWs don't give a hoot who the Governing Body or annointed are. In that case, they who are not of our fold, or are not JWs are doomed in Armageddon. The brochure JWs in the 20th century contradicts what the WT actually teaches.
SC
You said:
For instance, I have several quotes from the Society that claims that outside Jehovah's organization there is no place else to go for salvation and true joy. If one does not have salvation in Christ, how can they be saved outside of that salvation?[In-between sniped]
The brochure JWs in the 20th century contradicts what the WT actually teaches.
Actually all that is taught by the Society. Here is the fine line: JWs feel that since they have the true Christian religion that association and abidance of teachings thereof provides a good measure of protection against adverse judgment. That is where all the "everybody outside better watch out!" rhetoric comes from, which is naturally embedded in the notion that JW worship is the right one. On the other hand, they also teach that ultimately God judges through Christ Jesus and they will not presume to say how individuals will be judged.
waiting
Good one!
Friend
Friend,
Its funny how the WT can teach two different things at one time and very few notice.
Salvation is only by being part of the WT organization.
On the other hand.
It is God who judges through his son Jesus Christ.
In other words, God jugdes through Jesus (BUT) you have to be one of us in order to be judged acceptable by God.
SC, you bring up some good points. You're right in saying that there is some double talk going on here. If you will recall the 1988 Watchtower when there was a change in the treatment of what were then called 'approve associates' to 'unbaptized publishers', you will remember that the two study articles made sure everyone knew that you could not be 'approved by Jehovah" unless you are a witness.
Here are a couple of excerps from one of those articles:
Hence, though you may be relieved to hear that humans can become approved, you may want to know what is involved.That is basically so in our time too. Let us consider, though, how 'unbelievers or ordinary people' can be helped to become approved by God
For every sentence even mildly suggesting that we do not hold the view that we are the only ones that are going to make it, there are volumes of statements telling us just the opposite. Those few statements suggesting that we don't have that view are strictly for PR reasons and for ammunition (though it's very weak) to argue with those who point that out.
SC
Its funny how the WT can teach two different things at one time and very few notice.
Is there a true dichotomy or is it that you do not understand how two ideas accommodate one another? I do not see two views in opposition but rather views from two separate vantage points; one tableau is from the "we think we are right" position; one tableau is from the "But God is the ultimate judge of each individual" standpoint. The former holds strong views favoring association with us. (It cannot be any other way) The latter is an admission of what will ultimately determine our individual fate.
Salvation is only by being part of the WT organization.
Yes, that is taught from the perspective that we think we are correct in our intent and aspirations. We think we are true Christians, thus persons need respond as us in order to….
On the other hand, we do not teach that salvation (or not) of any individual is determined by us. Rather we teach that only God through His son will make that judgment. In that case, there is a quite explicit admission that salvation (or not) is in Jehovah’s hands, not ours. That is what Jehovah’s Witnesses actually teach on the matter of ultimate salvation and it has nothing whatsoever to do with public relations—not that you said it did. That teaching is firmly rooted in scripture. I do not know of a single JW in their right mind that would tell you otherwise.
Friend
Edited by - Friend on 6 June 2000 21:16:32
Its interesting that Islam (which means "submission") sees all those who submit their will to the will of God (Allah in Arabic)are Muslims. So for a Muslim, Abraham, even Able was a Muslim and all Christians were (if they followed Jsus's teachings). Language is interesting that it manages to separate people and like different monitary systems, sets up artificial barriers to effective interchange.
Were there a small "remnant of faithful" throughout history, they would likely have not all had the label "Christian". Remnant can also mean one person.
carmel
