King of North-Muslims

by Dogpatch 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    In the book "Daniel's Prophecy" the WTS asserts that the rival kings of the north and south are prophetic of 'world powers' over human history and these two kings change identities over the ages. Thus in four chapters the WTS gives its interpretation of which kings and governments have fulfilled this prophetic scenario.

    Many of the older Witnesses never imagined that the Communist bloc as the king of the north would be supplanted, but the WTS is now forced by circumstances to show on page 284 of the book that the Communist bloc only fulfils verses 32-43 of Daniel chapter 11. "Yet to rise" are the words used by the WTS to describe the identity of the King of the North of verses 44 and 45.

    If I were still a Witness I might have been seduced into going along with the Islam/King of the North 'thing' but now,..... you're kidding!

    One Dub I spoke to about this (my Bethelite friends) even raised a 'scriptural' refutation of the theory that Islam is the King of the North. Something about political empires (kings), not religious bodies (woman on the wild beast), and all that stuff.

    Cheers,
    Ozzie

    "If our hopes for peace are placed in the hands of imperfect people, they are bound to evaporate."

    - Ron Hutchcraft Surviving the Storms of Stress

  • beroea
    beroea

    Sorry to tell. I only listen for about 10 min. It’s just the old story putting gasoline on the fear fire.
    Nothing else. History repeats. And JW use old methods from the past giving such a great response.

    FEAR

    Bereoa
    A voice from Europe

  • sf
    sf

    Too bad I can't bring this audio to yahoo; only the url. Damn!

    Who is going to make the U.N. Aware! of these series of audios? Would they not be interested in hearing these?

    sKally

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    btw, when the notes from this talk were originally getting emailed around by JWs, they were posted here several times. at that time, i mentioned that the point about there being more muslims than christians was way off. now that i hear the audio, i see he doesnt actually try to say there are more muslims than christians, but merely reports that someone told him that. lol. patented WT research techniques.

    mox

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Hey Fred

    Maybe ciro is the antichrist 'standing in the place he ought not', gods holy temple, ny bethel and patterson. He was instrumental in getting the wt to agree to support the un. Ha ha ciro, the new antichrist!

    SS

  • slipnslidemaster
    slipnslidemaster

    Ok fellas, this ones easy. And as a bonus, I get my quota for my one serious post of the year.

    Soviet Union (USSR) is the current King of the North.

    USSR fights Muslim Afghanistan tribes.

    USSR loses to Muslim Afghani tribes.

    USSR falls as King of the North.

    Afghani muslim tribes start to rise in prominance in the world scene.

    911.

    King of the South goes after Muslim Afghani tribes.

    Inspires ire of the Muslim community.

    New King of the North is born. Muslims

    See? It's easy. Just use a Historical timeline and JW logic!

    USSR -> Afghanistan -> Muslims -> King of the North

    AND!!! as a bonus, if the Tower goes with the Muslims as the new King of the North, then they don't have to mess with that pesky country problem for a while because the Muslim community is spread through out the world.

    So...

    King of the North morphs into the Muslims...

    King of the South is going to morph into the Christians...

    and we will have the Crusades all over again.

    Slipnslidemaster: "Just because I look sexy on the cover of Rolling Stone doesn't mean I'm naughty."
    - Britney Spears

  • slipnslidemaster
    slipnslidemaster

    God, I'm sexy.

    Slipnslidemaster: "Just because I look sexy on the cover of Rolling Stone doesn't mean I'm naughty."
    - Britney Spears

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    I thought that Mancheste United was King of the north.

    It follows that Arsenal must be King of the south.

    Easy peasy.

    Englishman.

    Truth exists;only falsehood has to be invented. -Georges Braque

  • Hmmm
    Hmmm

    Here it is folks, by popular demand, the transcript of Pt I of the talk. I can't bring myself to do the other two parts. Maybe someone else will, and combine them all.

    WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS FOR US

    ...horrific tragedy struck the US. An attack from a religious enemy that changed the lives of everyone in this country, including members of the bethel family who had to see that were traumatized. And it created a great, great change in people’s attitudes. And we have been very very concerned about what this all means.

    Well, what we’re going to do today, because God’s people have been tipped off by Jehovah as to what the future holds, they are not fearful, but are very concerned but awake as to what this possibly could mean.

    Now we have been studying the Bible for years, and have been preaching the good news of the Kingdom. And we have also been aware of developments that God’s people have been notified through the pages of the Watchtower and the Awake! magazine.

    There are five developments, friends, that we’re going to talk about, but I’d like to talk about the first one that we should expect to see.

    I’d like you to open your Bible’s to 1 Thess. 5:3. This one really is electrifying in the sense that it seems to tie in with what happened in New York City a few weeks ago.

    1 thess 5:3 “Whenever it is—the apostle Paul is writing here—whenever it is they are saying peace and security, then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them…”

    Now up to this time, we’ve been hearing calls for peace and security; we’ve had it during the Desert Storm war, the Gulf War, we’ve heard it when the United Nations have said it, but notice, friends, that this time, in this situation that what happened there in New York has changed things. No longer is the world secure. It’s the truth, yeah.

    These terrorists can do a lot of damage. And the whole world is now united for the first time. They’re looking for, not only peace, but they want security. The Eiffel Tower, the House of Commons, all the major places are now under threat. And so now people want security. And so the cry is ‘peace and security.’ People are concerned.

    And this is the first time that we have such a situation which has galvanized the entire world. You think of the Vietnam War, the Korean war, even the attack on Pearl Harbor, those were between nations. But now you have a whole world coalition—including the United Nations—whom the Secretary General said on television ‘Now, we must root out terrorism off the face of this earth.’

    Now that changes things, friends. That should alert us. That should make us very much concerned. Are we near the end? Well we’re not saying that. What we should say—look at this as ‘it’s time to stay awake. It is time to draw very close to God’s people. It is time not to miss meetings, but to get out and preach’—comfort the people—we have a great opportunity, we’re going to talk about that later.

    But this development that’s happening now is going to happen SO FAST—Brother Franz, I shall never forget, said, “It’ll go like this.” [CLAP] He slapped his hand that morning, and he said, “It’ll be a trap. And once it starts, there’ll be no turning back.” Now we have all the springs of this trap ready to begin. But let’s see now what’s going to happen, that will be in this trap.

    Now first of all we have to deal with this second develo—now this first development is already on the scene of the earth, there’s no question about it. Even the brothers there at Bethel are very concerned and watching about this ‘peace and security’ movement.

    But there’s a development that has been going on, the rivalry between the radical king of the North and the democratic King of the South… Two great powers. How they’re going to run into this, I don’t know, and I’m not predicting, and none of us should. But let’s see what as going to happen:

    It says there in Daniel 11:44… [reports that will disturb King of the North out of sunrising and out of north… he’ll go forth in a great rage to annihilate many…]

    Now who are the many, here, that he is going to devote to destruction and annihilate? It is not the King of the South, the Anglo-American world power because the Bible tells us in Daniel 7:26 and Daniel 8:25 that he will be totally destroyed without human hands, by the heavenly armies under Michael, or Jesus Christ. So that leaves him out. Who are the many? Let’s let God answer. Let’s turn to Revelation 17:16 and we’re going to get a clue. And when you read that you’re going to say ‘my, they are many.’

    Rev 17: 16 [ten horns (including King of the North) and wild beast will hate harlot and devastate her…]

    Yes, we’re talking about the populous realm of false religion, you see. Now who is the identity of this Scarlet-colored wild beast—we have to look at them—who God destines to devastate BtheG? Well (and who helps us to see the King of the North’s role in this attackt) it’s the United Nations. The seven-headed, ten-horned monstrosity that she’s riding today, which she has been stroking and cooing sweet names ever since its establishment in 1945. Now the King of the North is a prominent member of this political beast. This shocking event that we’re talking about—this attack—will not be triggered by some human political(?) factors although what has happened in New York seems to indicate that it may!

    But what’s going to happen to the destruction is that, in Rev. 17: 17 says that Jehovah God makes it happen. Notice that there. Look in your Bible there. It says he puts it in the hearts of the nations to carry out His thought of destroying this wicked empire of false religion.

    Now why does He want to destroy false religion? Well, He has a right to. It’s a divine retribution from the Supreme Judge. Let’s list the reasons:

    -She must pay for all her disgusting things. And they are disgusting, at what she’s been teaching and practices.
    -She has to pay for inebriating mankind with the wine of her political fornication,
    -And for shedding the blood of God’s Prophets, and Holy Ones,
    -And the blood of all those that have been slaughtered on the earth.

    Now God’s implanting in the hearts of the political leaders the determination to annihilate Babylon the Great could very well be those reports out of the sunrising that disturb the King of the North against false religion.

    Now, it’s incredible, people might feel, ‘Huh! Could the United Nations do that?’ But we have the scene ready. I mean, the situation’s already there on the scene today. Our lives are never going to be the same. We’d better accept that now.

    The UN is suddenly going to—and she’s already working with the US to empower, and to go against this false religion. Now, we should not think that the UN is a helpless organization. It will some day, with the backing of the coalition, gain great power and do this attacking.

    Now, when that happens, friends—and by the way, I’d like to mention something, too… Now, if you open up your books called Mankind’s Search For God book, and if you look at the opening—we know the front page, where the pictures are usually—we call it the front page, the inside cover. Look at the map and see how big the ‘Islamic empire’ is. I was told that it has more than Christendom. So maybe we have been looking at the wrong part of Babylon The Great.

    It is the most aggressive. It is the one that is irritating the king of the North, and the Wild Beast, isn’t it? So we have to stay alert, friends. We do not know everything, but Jehovah’s giving us enough clues to keep us aware. Stay awake!

    Now when the nations begin devastating Babylon The Great, including ALL these religions, including the aggressive terroristic ones, it’s going to signal the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Now there’s no turning back. This is the beginning of the end for all of Jehovah’s enemies!

    But, friends, like we said yesterday at our Kingdom hall, it is the beginning of a new beginning for all of us who are His friends. Isn’t that beautiful?

    And it means that the fourth development foretold by Jehovah God is about to begin—a development that is going to test our faith and trust in Jehovah to its very foundation.

    Now friends, if we hope to survive it, we must take God’s prediction of this particular aspect as a very personal warning. We MUST be prepared for its coming. We MUST keep ourselves in expectation of it. All the more so since Jehovah not revealed many things about it, but just given us what we need to know.

    What is that development? It’s a vicious attack that the nations will launch against us--Jehovah’s people. And Ezekiel 38 and 39—those two chapters, you may go home and read them—describe this assault, the motive behind it, and the final outcome.

    Jehovah names Gog, G-O-G, as the protagonist[sic] in this prophecy. And from what he does, this Gog is really Satan the Devil, the ruler of the world, whom God has given the glory, and the authority of all the kingdoms of all the inhabited earth. As the God of this system of things, only he has the super-human power to direct such a massive maneuvering of nations depicted in this prophecy.

    And, it’s in keeping with his character. He’s the original Serpent, the great enemy of God. He wants to wipe us out. So let’s not minimize him, you see. And ever since he was cast down from heaven, in 1914—err, between 1914 and 1908 [1918?]—this dragon, this fiery-colored Satan the devil has been trying to destroy every one and every thing devoted to God. And he wages war against all who observe God’s commandments, and who bare witness that now Jesus is ruling as king in heaven.

    Now we can well imagine, friends—and this now begins to fit--how INFURIATED he is going to be when he sees us dwelling quietly in God’s peace and security, and his Babylonish prostitute screeching in pain as the wild beast chews up her blubbery, fleshy parts.

    His frustration will explode into a paroxysm of rage that can be appeased by only one thing: He must completely eradicate Jehovah’s pure worship from the face of the earth—that’s what his aim is.

    So, as Ezekiel 38:10 forewarns, Satan is going to think up an injurious scheme.

    A scheme to whip up nations hatred of false religion, which is now probably building, as you can see it. But in it to wipe out TRUE religion, at the same time. He’s going to exacerbate the greed of these governments, and their anger, in their desire for peace and security.

    Their economy’s in threat. Look at what’s happening to the US, the stock market. That’s going to happen to the whole world. The whole economy is dependent. It’s not one stock market, and the rest can go on. No, the whole thing is like a domino.

    So they’re going to all unite. And it SUGGESTS in Dan. 11:45, that the King of the North will be leading the force in this Gogian attack. It tells us—now watch this—that this King is going to audaciously plant his palatial tents between the grand sea, and the holy mountain of decoration. Now what does that mean? It means that he’s going to plop himself in an area that is very precious to Jehovah God.

    Yes, according to Ezek 38:12, God gets the King of the North and all of the nations to storm against us, in order to get a big spoil, and to do much plundering, you see.

    Now you can imagine what’s going to happen here, in Ezek. 38:13: [observers asking Gog, you’re going for spoil and plundering?]

    “Here you are mustering the entire world to go after a small organization of maybe 6-10 million people? You’re mobilizing everybody? What is that?” You see they just don’t understand that.

    We know what it’s about, don’t we friends? God has tipped us off, right?

    Oh, the Devil wants to destroy our spiritual paradise, you see. That’s something he’s been trying to do since 1922, and now he thinks he has a chance.

    Now, it’s very obvious why he wants to do this. Do you realize that we in this spiritual garden are wielding an influence for Jehovah’s messianic Kingdom?

    Why, our very presence in this park—right here this morning—is evidence showing that God’s government is now ruling in heaven. And it means that Satan’s short period of time is ending. That’s what you’re doing, you don’t realize that!

    And you are declaring God’s great glory worldwide. And your very presence shows that you authenticate God’s claim to his sovereignty over the earth. You are devoted to him. You want him to be the King. You want him to take over this earth.

    And you prove one other thing, friends: That Satan can’t turn all of mankind against god, as he boasted. But he wants to suppress these things. He doesn’t want anyone to know that.

    But here we are in a spiritual paradise. And we’re not only here, in this park friends. Our brothers all over the world are meeting today—in New York, in Brazil, all over—just think.

    And we’re flourishing at the very figurative center of the earth. That is where he can see us.

    Publicly exhibiting these fruits, and look how lovely this park is. We have big trees of righteousness—faithful men who lead exemplary lives, who humbly feed and care for God’s people.

    And look at all of you. A park is not only made up of trees. It’s made up of all kinds of vegetation—yes—in the form of all kinds of men who are bearing the sweet fruitage of the Holy Spirit. Little children that are like flowers—devoted little children, eh? A garden is made up of a lot of pretty little flowers—not big flowers—sometimes they’re little violets, you see… Lilies of the Valleys. All of you are there, friends, all of you maintaining and expanding our beautiful spiritual paradisaic [sic] state.

    Now imagine how it fills him with rage to see us in this exclusive garden growing luxuriantly in the spiritually poisonous environment that he has purposely set up in this system of things; an environment of hedonism and rampant materialism.

    He thinks he’s set everything up so that he can make every man unconscious of his spiritual need. But we’re a miracle, that he can’t hide. Our ongoing spiritual prosperity is proof that Jehovah God, the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe must be the one who is blessing us, that we could be growing in such an atmosphere.

    Oh how this frustrates Gog. So, like his Prime Minister Haaman, that Amalachite crony back there, he seeks to kill off Jehovah’s people—scattered and separated—and who do not love his world, or the things in his world. People that he can not enslave with the desires of the flesh, and the desire of the eyes, and the showy displays of one’s means of life.

    And you know in spite of everything that he has done to stifle our spirituality, here we are. And millions of our brothers around the world who keep on seeking first God’s kingdom and His righteousness.

    Ohhhhhhohoooooooo how this galls Gog. He is so mad! He’s going to defoliate and denude God’s spiritual paradise if it’s the last thing he does! And it will be the last thing he does, friends. [Maniacal laugh]

  • slipnslidemaster
    slipnslidemaster

    No, no, no. Don't post something interesting after MY post. Nobody will read it then. Mine is terribly insiteful this time.

    Scroll up, scroll up!!

    I'm trying to get my Alanf merit badge. HELP!

    Slipnslidemaster: "Just because I look sexy on the cover of Rolling Stone doesn't mean I'm naughty."
    - Britney Spears

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