Guys!! Guys!!! Two Jehovah's Witnesses were just at my door!! (page 4)

Tuesday

I usually go for the dichotomy, every time I talk to a JW I will read to them Matthew 24 and start asking questions about it. They always end up squirming as they realize everything Jesus warned about they fit into. It's even better if you bring up another religion first and they agree to it, then you correlate their religion.

Black Sheep

would appreciate the learned bible scholars (JW's or believers in God/Jesus) on board refuting/objecting to ZID's comments with the two witnesses at her door today. thanks

I'll have a go.

If a Dub Googles Inanna, they won't be smacked in the face with authoritative pages that draw a comparison with Jesus/Inanna that sounds like Inanna's time in sheol was anything like Jesus'. E.g. Plenty of hits saying Inanna wasn't dead in sheol, but Christ was. There might be better info in the library, but how many will go there and look.

When a Dub Googles, they are looking for the loopholes to let them continue their beliefs. This comparison has too many dissimilarities for my liking. Dissimilarities only don't matter if the Dub is telling the story , you know the rules.

You have to be very careful with them. Make one wrong/weak statement and they might call it a lie and and use that as an excuse to disregard everything else you said that was on the money. That is why I now recommend only asking questions. Plus, when you pose everything as questions, they are obliged to answer you to save your sorry arse from their killer god .......... after all ........... that is why they knocked on your door ............

The important thing is to get out from behind the curtains and have a go.

rebel8

OK ZID (CAN'T wait to be shot down here by you knowledgeable, history buffs) but you referenced to the two witnesses something that happened thousands of yrs. (or hundreds of yrs. before Christ) from some society's history based on someone trying to translate a bunch of rocks, whatever, and it happens to parallel accounts of Jesus (what a coincidence) and just how do you know it's true --- it cannot be proved as science or fact. it's still translation. wish someone would address and counter your statements to the witnesses --- someone who BELIEVES in christianity.

You said you seek information from someone who already agrees with you. This is known as avoidance of disconfirming information.

These things you stated about "just being translation", "parallel", "can't be proved" are totally incorrect.

I'm going to hold off discussing it with you until you've done your own research.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Please remember to turn in an anti-witnessing report to Brooklyn so that the time can be deducted from both sisters' reports.

ziddina

Dang!!! I thought this thread had gone quiet; look at all the activity!!

Flipper!! Thanks, man!! And right back atcha!!

LV101, the objections a Christian would raise to my comments would have to depend on whether they accepted scientific facts... Like carbon-14 dating and other forms of dating.

The Goddess Inanna was in the "underworld" for THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS. This is from Sumerian mythology that predates THE ENTIRE BIBLE by at least a thousand years. THAT is the similarity between "Jesus" and Inanna that I was referring to - but I suspect that other 'interim' deities may have had some "three-days-and-three-nights" epic journey into the underworld - I just haven't run across any - yet...

Just a general note - when talking about biblical stories and their "heathen" counterparts, I look at the DATING first - the stories of Dionysus existed BEFORE Christianity came along - at least 300 - 400 years EARLIER than "Jesus". When the so-called "heathen" story came FIRST - well, we all know who plagiarized from WHOM, in that case...

Velour... Lucky?? I don't get it...

GL Tirebiter - MAN, I LOVE that sign!! [Might just make one for myself... ]

JunkYardDog - thanks, man!!

Wobble, Wow!! High praise - I'm not sure I deserve it, but - thanks!!

Heaven - your brother really told them!! Yeah, we 'home-workers' don't want to have to deal with them!! [Actually, it was kinda fun... ]

Tuesday - I'm an atheist and I sure didn't like having the bible hammered into me when I was a kid. I was much more informed about science than the bible - preferred it that way, so I have to approach such a situation from my strengths.

Besides, that whole "The bible is only around 3,500 - 4,000 years old, but many forms of worship are FAR, FAR older..." clinches it, for me. That which came last, CANNOT be "older", no matter how many convoluted leaps of logic people engage in, attempting to say, in effect, that the OLDER, HEATHEN religions somehow 'prefigured' that Johnny-come-Lately Middle-Eastern Bronze-Age volcano god's words...

Black Sheep - good points! Funny thing is - I HAVE a SIGNED copy of the book, "Inanna, Queen of Heaven and Earth" co-written by the late Samuel Noah Kramer, who was the world's LEADING Sumerologist - that's "Archaeologist who focuses exclusively on the Sumerians/Akkadians" - so if they'd protested, I would have brought out that book and would have shown them where - in the book - it mentions that "Inanna" was in "the underworld" for three days and three nights... Please see also my comments above to LV101 - the significant item is that "three-days-and-three-nights" time period, which I suspect were significant in OTHER pre-Christian "heathen" religions, also.

Hi, Rebel8!! Good points!

Billy - hey! I don't think they'll accept such a slip; would YOU be interested in being the "anti-Witnessing" timekeeper for us??

Zid the She-Devil

jookbeard

liked that Zidd, wondering how the conversation would have developed with the pair of them had they willingly listened without time constraints.

the-illuminator81

I don't know Zid, but as a fully in dub I would not be very impressed by your 'talk', I would be very interested and would probably have looked up some of those myths on google though. And that might've begun my waterfall of doubt. But it would not have made me question my faith. I would have just applied the "Satan is the source of all false religion, so it's no surprise that he has perverted the messiah story" excuse to stop any further thinking.

Of course for the girl that was at the door, if she wasn't 100% brainwashed, it might've worked a lot better on her than it would've on me.

ziddina

Thanks, JookBeard!!

The Illuminator, different things work on different people... I really wasn't aiming my comments at the young blonde sister; I was quite focused on the older brunette - until, towards the end of the 'session', when the brunette walked off of the porch, the young blonde seemed reluctant to leave!!

That REALLY surprised me... I had directed a few comments at her, but...

As I mentioned to someone else on this thread, I didn't absorb much of the "bible knowledge" after I heard Exodus 19: 16-19, so I 'went with my strengths' - that is, I've read more about EARLIER forms of worship than I've read of the bible. So I spoke about what I knew...

Thanks for your comment!!

ziddina

Which brings me to a question for any posters/readers of this thread at large...

Someone raised a question or objection that the time span between the Sumerian civilization and the Israelites - and especially the period of Christianity - were too great for the legend/myth of the goddess Inanna's descent into the underworld for three days and three nights to have had any influence on the "Jesus" story...

I would direct those people to research - or just look at Wikipedia - under the headings of "Inanna" - of the Sumerians - and the connection between "Inanna" and the Akkadian/Babylonian goddess "Ishtar" - anyone here remember the "Gate of Ishtar" excavated from Babylon and now displayed in a prominent British museum??? The goddess "Ishtar" was so revered by the Babylonians that they built an imposing city gate dedicated to "Ishtar"...

And "Ishtar" is derived/plagiarized from "Inanna", and interestingly, "Ishtar" ALSO went down into the underworld for three days and three nights... [It seems plagiarism was fairly common amongst ancient peoples - the Greeks adopted Egyptian mythology; the Romans adopted Greek AND Egyptian mythology, and so on...]

Aaaaannndd....

Does ANYONE here remember when Babylon became a dominant influence over the Israelites??? [hint - it's a date that is frequently discussed on this website, as the Watchtower Society has been using the WRONG date to support their "1914" 'presence of Christ' date...]

Also... One COULD look up: "Ishtar and Astarte mythology three days and nights in the underworld"... Or: "Egyptian mythology three days and nights in the underworld"... Or: "Greek mythology three days and nights in the underworld"... Or: "Roman mythology three days and nights in the underworld"... Or: "Pre-Christian mythology three days and nights in the underworld"... And so on...

I'm going to let YOU people do the rest of the research. If you WANT to know what the REAL truth is, then you'll look it up.

Otherwise, I wish you well in your worship of the Johnny-come-lately Bronze-Age Middle-Eastern male volcano god...

Zid the She-Devil

still thinking

Zid...I have to take my hat off to you on this one....good job...

Guys!! Guys!!! Two Jehovah's Witnesses were just at my door!!

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