PRIVACY doesn't exist (inside Jehovah's organization)

by Terry 23 Replies latest jw experiences

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  dgp

  I think this wanting to know everything about you is nothing more than wanting to control you. If they were to respect your privacy, you would have some rights in their regard, and this they don't want. I think this is why dictatorships make it a routine to ignore their own laws. Also, if there is something they don't know about you, then you can act in ways they cannot control. I have no doubt that it is deliberate.

  Many people have pointed out that controlling your sex drive is one of the most powerful ways to control you.

  I am sure you guys can see the contrast between the practice of their needing to know everything about you, even by snooping into your life, and the extreme secretiveness the Watchtower allows itself, to different degrees according to rank. For example, worldlies and even other witnesses can be deemed "not entitled to know the truth". The rank and file witness is not to know the contents of the elder's manual. So-called judicial hearings are secret, and the group of elders acting on one is answerable only to itself. Et cetera.

  I have never read a comment in this sense here, but, based on my experience with mankind, I am also sure that an occasional secret is kept for future blackmail use, when the time is ripe. Or, it is kept until confirming information is obtained.

  I'm sure they would claim that this is not organizational practice, but individual noseyness. But, if you are forced to interact only with people who are nosey, you become nosey yourself. One question would be, does the Watchtower encourage witnesses to respect one another's privacy? We know the answer is no.

  Before I forget, in her book "Prisons we choose to live inside" (http://www.amazon.com/Prisons-We-Choose-Live-Inside/dp/B000H2MD4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309362169&sr=8-1), Doris Lessing informs us that the American government was astounded to find that some of its soldiers were confessing to crimes they had not committed. They found it was the result of brainwashing, as practiced by North Korea. Then, the American government started a program of its own to study the effects of brainwashing on people. Let us remember that Robert Jay Lifton's studies had to do with the same experience.

  I think this denial of privacy is a form of behavior control (you can only do as we say, and we want to know if you're complying).
• 

  leavingwt

  Related. . .

  Religions care more about mostly victimless sex sins than they do about violence, robbery and even murder.

  . . .

  Apart from prohibitions on innocuous things, many of the rules are concerned with sex. Celibacy of catholic priests, circumcision, marriage as a Church institution and a virgin birth. In some of the Calvinist Churches, there are prohibitions against dancing and of course Islam has women covered up, men with multiple wives, women as definitely subordinate and men rewarded with multiple virgins in paradise.

  . . .

  One of the early major influences on Christian thinking was Augustine of Hippo (later St. Augustine). He spent his early years (up to about 40) enjoying a very full sex life - when he was not yet a Christian. But he was then converted and saw the "error of his ways". He must have had a real attack of sudden guilt because he proceeded to provide all kinds of intellectual reasons why sex was bad. His writing was a major influence on early Christian thinking and his influence persists to this day. It was about this time that the Catholic priests were told to be celibate and many of the prohibitions on sex were established.

  . . .

  http://www.cobourgatheist.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1154:religions-are-pre-occupied-with-sex&catid=156:what-are-religions-really-about&Itemid=72
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  WontLeave

  Like the Dark Ages Catholic Church and fundie freaks standing on street corners yelling at people that they're going to Hell, JWs believe it's their job to police other people. They believe they have the right to deterimine God's standards and enforce them by any means necessary. They reject Paul's and Jesus' examples, in favor of the example of the Pharisees.

  I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness - Acts 20:29
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  sd-7

  Well, there is a certain amount of privacy for a JW, but much of it has to be obtained by breaking rules, both spoken/written and unspoken. The elders seem obligated to know if you're dating someone, and if they even hear you spent some time alone with that person, you get interrogated, as if by definition you must've sinned. (I know from personal experience. Was dating and alone with girlfriend for a time, one time, and didn't do anything wrong but got hauled into a meeting with the elders anyway. Of course you can date, but we have to watch you because quite obviously, you won't obey our rules if nobody makes sure you obey...)

  Basically, and this is what I just told Jamie recently, it felt like being in the middle of the prison yard with a giant flood light on you. You felt everybody was watching everybody else. You couldn't keep your feelings to yourself. My experience was that people were great at gossip. It seemed pointless to have judicial committees private, given that everyone always seemed to know what was done after it was over anyway.

  You could dress like you wanted, watch what you wanted, and think what you wanted--as long as you didn't do it in front of other JWs. You could wear a sportcoat and slacks and a beard, but you wouldn't get any "privileges" if you did that.

  Mainly, the Society, and by extension the elders, are concerned with how JWs look to the outside world. As long as they look squeaky clean to the outside, not much else matters. And in turn, the members are conscious of this and so apart from the die-hards this tends to be how they operate, as well.

  Excellent point made, that the Society itself retains the privilege of privacy by virtue of its authority. I think their secretive nature--just the fact that they were often referred to in my congregation as "the Society" (which sounds secretive in itself) made me just a little suspicious. Or at the very least, curious.

  Privacy in the Borg is something you have to fight for and be willing to be 'demoted' over, or else comply with the rules and fully disclose your life to them. Rather than being a right that you deserve, it is something that is viewed with suspicion. Prov. 18:1 is often used as a warning, that being too private is just going to lead to sinful behavior.

  In short, privacy is semi-existent, and that, only at a price.

  --sd-7
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  Terry

  My own opinion is that long-term survival as a member in good standing requires leading a double-life for many members.

  That double-life fits the cognitive dissonance pattern of holding opposites in your mind simultaneously.

  I don't know how much this damages sanity, rational thinking or personality. Different people have different tolerances before they crack.

  But, a lot of depression seems evident.

  The snooping and gossip are morbid fascination perhaps stemming from personal curiousity about what others are "getting away with.

  Snitches abound!
• 

  Ding

  Like the Pharisees, the WTS measures spirituality by compliance with rules of external behavior that cover every aspect of life.

  The organization expects JWs to rebel unless controls are tight and punishment is swift and certain.

  This requires constant regulating (new light), reporting (duty to inform), and enforcement systems (judicial committees).

  Privacy is therefore seen as a cloak for disobedience and rebellion.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  No privacy in Bethel, yet many are able to hide a long history of "wrongdoing". (Or are careful enough to erase their browser history.)

  The WT world's lack of privacy produces two results: 1) Massive guilt, irritation, and frustration for those that really try to be obedient. 2) Massive duplicity as many try to keep private things private and pretend to be obedient.
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  Quendi

  I also believe there is no privacy in the world of Jehovah's Witnesses. I also think this condition has come about gradually. Remember, this religion started out as a millennial movement of the nineteenth century and was consumed with preaching the message that Armageddon was sure to arrive by October 1914. And while there were certain standards of behavior, congregations as we know them now did not exist. Instead, the International Bible Students were organized into classes for Bible study and preaching activity--much like first century congregations were.

  However, as time went by, and especially after the death of Charles Russell, changes were introduced. Joseph Rutherford decided that the autonomy of the individual congregations was a bad thing and he created the apparatus of central control from Brooklyn. Once the congregations and their officers were brought to heel, that control was then extended over individuals. The result is the current situation which dgp, WontLeave, and sd-7, among othershave so splendidly described.

  Rules and practices were introduced and obedience to them was insisted upon. Disfellowshipping came into play to further strengthen the grip. The organization today is one that no Bible Student from the early twentieth century--including Charles Russell--would even recognize. At first the Society was content to enforce its version of sexual mores. Eventually, starting with Rutherford and moving on to his successors, the Society felt it should dictate to the rank-and-file its vision of what "New World" living would be like by issuing ex cathedra rulings on every aspect of a person's life. It got away with this by hammering its interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47 and Proverbs 4:18 into everyone's head.

  The result now is an organization that is oppressive and poisonous. Like a mold that grows from a single spore, the WTS has arisen from very small beginnings to spread itself to such an extent that it covers every aspect of life, even the most private and intimate ones. However, a mold can grow only so large. This is because as it grows, it excretes poisons that eventually surround and kill it. That was how antibiotics were first discovered, and if you ever look closely as a very large mold, you will see a ring of bright material bordering it. That is the poison the organism creates which eventually destroys it.

  I think the same thing will eventually happen to the WTS, or at least I hope so. Sorry for this wordy exposition, but that's why I call myself "Quendi". Anyway, those are my thoughts on this matter, Terry. I hope they are of some use to you and others.

  Quendi
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  ziddina

  No, of course it doesn't...

  Anytime a group tells you that they can diddle in your SEX life, for Pete's sake - well, that means that they have co-opted access to ALL areas of your life - with your permission, of course...

  Zid
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  ziddina

  "The fact that you mention the military deliberately does this to new recruits in order to dominate their consciousness makes me wonder if some evil son-of-a-bitch somewhere got this idea. ..." Long Hair Gal

  I'd lay the blame at Rutherford's feet...

  That drunken slob was TOTALLY disrespectfuL of any and ALL personal boundaries... Emotionally autistic, if you ask me...

  And he was a complete and thorough HYPOCRITE. Hypocrites are ALWAYS intrusive...

  Zid