Moral Rigidity vs Ethical Rigidity

by sabastious 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Recently I have been pondering about the Witnesses self proclaimed "moral superiority" to the outside world. How can one person's chosen moral be superior to another person's chosen moral? To quantify the difference betwen morals is to test their percieved benefits, and detriments, in the societies that accept them. The only way to do this is by observation and questioning. So how would one figure out the difference between, say, stealing and homosexuality?

    We have ample societal data to work with so that gives us hope that a firmer conclusion can be made. Stealing, if left ungoverned, will destroy a society by robbing the innocent of security rending life, as a means of living, growing and loving, actually at risk. Homosexuality is feared by many heterosexual communinties because it's, for some, uncomfortable to watch and is explicitly condemned by Christianity, Judaism and Islam by penalty of death (minus Modern Judaism and Christianity).

    As we can see homosexuality should logically be considered a lesser threat than stealing. However if you read the ancient texts, of those three religions, and observe their religious societies (some of us didn't get the choice on this one) homosexulality is considered much worse than stealing. If they had to choose the priest, rabbi and imam would want their son's being caught stealing rather than being caught with another man. Why does this logical contradiction exist within these religious socities?

    I would say that it comes from a bad case of loose ethics and over focus on a specific moral or sin. It appears that these people, Jehovah's Witnesses included, have become obsessed with a moral code and are ignoring the more important ethical framework that morals are based on.

    One thing that we must understand as the moral creators: a moral is nothing more than a linguistic "risk vs reward" choice consolidator. That's one thing we, as a species, are constantly searching for: data for our Risk vs Reward Systems to work with. Some choose to use what they have found to help others and that's how it starts, but it sometimes ends with religious empires like the ones I talked about.

    As ex Jehovah's Witnesses we actually have far superiour ethics than that of the people we left behind; and luckily that's what counts in the end.

    Ethics are what fuel our conscience, not morals. Morals are merely laws adorned with the garb of piety.

    -Sab

  • Naddia_the_Godless
    Naddia_the_Godless

    There have been a number of different influential ethical systems throughout history. The three major systems that still influence modern western ethics are Natural Law, Deontology, and Utilitarianism.

    Natural Law Ontology can be traced back to Plato, Aristotle, Paul and Christianity, and Thomas Aquinas. These influential theologians and philosophers believed that there were absolutes in nature, and therefore absolutes of right and wrong. For Christians, the determiner of natural law is God. Consequences are meaningless in a system of absolutes. It’s always wrong to lie, steal, fornicate, etc.

    Immanuel Kant was a Christian, but he tweaked out a new system in which Reason was the determiner of ethics. Instead of looking to the Bible or religious leaders to explain what God’s natural law required, we could all employ human reason to understand right and wrong. His categorical imperatives could be universalized, which still meant ethics were absolute and both motives and consequences were irrelevant, but it did take some control away from religious leaders and place it in the hands of individuals.

    John Stuart Mill is credited with Utilitarianism, which is probably the most influential ethical philosophy in our western culture. He asserted that right and wrong can be determined by what brings greater good to the majority of people. In this system, both motive and consequence are important factors.

    John Rawls proposed the idea of the Veil of Ignorance, which is also influential in our legal system. According to this position, a hypothetical moral dilemma is created, but you do not know what role you play. For example, a woman has an infection that may kill her if she does not take antibiotics, but she cannot afford the medication. Her husband obtains the medication from a pharmacist but explains that he has no money to pay for it, but that his wife may die without it. The pharmacist denies him the medication, so he grabs it and runs out the door. The pharmacist alerts the police. The police arrest the man.

    Clearly the man broke the law by stealing, but he did so to save the life of his wife. Put yourself behind the veil of ignorance. What if you were the woman? The man? The pharmacist? You could be the one dying, or the one trying to save your loved one's life. Is stealing medication or food to feed hungry children as bad as robbing a bank to pocket the money? According to Natural Law and Deontology, it's always wrong to steal. It's always wrong to lie. Utilitarianism and the Veil of Ignorance allow us to look at each situation and its variables to determine whether it was right or wrong, not based on absolutes, but on the relative nature of benefits/harm.

    Through the centuries, our views of ethics have become less absolute. Laws exist, but motive, consequence, and remorse play a big part in determining punishment for crimes. But there are still many in our society who believe in Natural Law ethics even though our legal system is gradually abandoning that system. They are still hearing “homosexuality is unnatural and wrong” from the pulpit even though our society as a whole is creeping away from that view. Religions that are able to adapt to the changes in society will probably fair better and live longer than those who staunchly hold to old world views on ethics.

    Nad

  • Snoozy
    Snoozy

    NAD..are you the one that used to post on Tim's beyond board?

    Snoozy..

  • Naddia_the_Godless
    Naddia_the_Godless

    Dat bees me. Hi Snoozy!

    Nad

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Ethics are how morals are demonstrated, if the ethics are weak then the moral core ( not the morals) are weak.

    Of course that is subjective, how decides what 'weak ethics" are anyways?

    For morals to mean anything they have to be above simply "risk and reward" because iof they are not then indeed, morals and ethics are totally subjective and based solely on "might is right" or they cna be refuted via the grand "sez who?"

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Of course that is subjective, how decides what 'weak ethics" are anyways?

    Everything is subjective, but not everything is broad in perspective. Ethics are supposed to be broad and well thought out. We have enough data historically to construct some VERY broad, yet effective, ethical frameworks. Ethics is the compass, never lose it, while morals are the things we find with the compass.

    -Sab

  • Found Sheep
    Found Sheep

    good thoughts and I agree

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Nad thank you for your post.

    You say that our legal system is abandoning it's misuse of Natural Law, but I don't see that at all. What I do see see is some people attempting, and sometimes succeeding, to weed out the misuse of the logical fallacy that any moral could be held next to a natural law like gravity equally. Removing the bad laws that have sprung forth from this misuse would be as easy as removing diluted poisen from a glass of water. First off it would likely require unethical actions and behaviours to even get close to putting themselves in a position to attack what many hold as Sacred Law.

    How is it that cigerettes, with their mountains of provable societal detriment, are perfectly legal to buy, virtually anywhere, whereas I will be placed behind bars, if caught, if I walk in the forest to collect hallucinogenic mushrooms? Our society is far from using a true risk vs reward ethical framework. Money is what controls everything, currently, and I have been desperately trying to figure out how to get around the societal taint of money.

    -Sab

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Everything is subjective, but not everything is broad in perspective. Ethics are supposed to be broad and well thought out. We have enough data historically to construct some VERY broad, yet effective, ethical frameworks. Ethics is the compass, never lose it, while morals are the things we find with the compass.
    -Sab

    Actually, I see it the other way around, Morals being what ethics point too, but I think were are just "splitting hairs".

    As for enough data to historically construct some Very broad yet effective ethical framework, well... based on what?

    Historically speaking, ethics have never been a huge issue. Might, quite typically, made right.

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    How do morals point to anything? Morals are a Yay-Nay type of thing while ethics are more about Why. Why comes with an answer and the answer points to something which is then tested for benefit and detriment and then the moral is created.

    Here are some morals we have created:

    Moral Description Evoked Response

    Murder brings forth injustice Do not murder
    Stealing creates insecurity Do not steal
    Family unity and trust are integral Do not commit adultery
    Sex is only between marriage mates Do not commit fornication
    Work for what you have Do not covet the property of another

    Why does murder bring forth injustice?
    Why does stealing create societal insecurity?
    Why is family unity and trust imporant?
    Why should sex be between mates only?
    Why should we avoid getting something for nothing?

    Morals are not explanations, but rough conclusions.

    -Sab

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