Preventing a minor child from being baptized if you are their parent (page 4)

sinis

The two questions involved:

"ON THE BASIS OF THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST,
HAVE YOU REPENTED OF YOUR SINS AND DEDICATED
YOURSELF TO JEHOVAH TO DO HIS WILL?"
- "YES!"

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR DEDICATION AND
BAPTISM IDENTIFIES AS ONE OF JEHOVAH'S
WITNESSES IN ASSOCIATION WITH GOD'S SPIRIT-
DIRECTED ORGANIZATION?"
- "YES!"

The first one is not so important, per se. The second one is!

Word Mark WATCHTOWER
Goods and Services IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: Web sites and web pages, featuring information in the field of religion. FIRST USE: 19970131. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19970131
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 07.01.01 - Castles; Forts; Palaces
Serial Number 76220094
Filing Date March 6, 2001
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition March 19, 2002
Registration Number 2578039
Registration Date June 11, 2002
Owner (REGISTRANT) Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA 25 Columbia Heights Brooklyn NEW YORK 112012483
Attorney of Record Richard D. Moake
Prior Registrations 1208323;1303701;2333027;2341217;AND OTHERS
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

REMEMBER THIS?

Type of Work: Motion Picture
Registration Number / Date: PA0000499515 / 1990-12-27
Title: Jehovah's witnesses--the organization behind the name.
Description: 1 videocassette.
Notes: Produced by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.
Copyright Claimant: Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
Date of Creation: 1990
Date of Publication: 1990-12-04
Authorship on Application: motion picture, cover artwork: Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, employer for hire.

Names: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania

So, the organization behind the TRADEMARKED name is the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is a corporation offering a BINDING contract as per the second question asked when being baptised. In most, if not all states, a legally bound contract is usually unenforceable, or void when under the age of 18. I would explain to your wife that your child, based on the second baptismal question, is NOT old enough to make this agreement.

RayPublisher

Thanks for the good advice and help, all of you.

@pbro - I can see your point, but not sure full-on "going apostate" is the right course at this point. The wife is very strong minded and fully "captive to the concept" at this time so she aint going to budge.

@NathanN - Your advice is good and for now probably my only choice. The kids are not pushing for baptism yet but I soon some of their friends are going to be getting baptized and that will probably start the idea in their minds, which my wife will of course encourage.

@JWfacts - yes I've been teaching them history, worldview, religion, etc. for a while now, all indirect stuff but hopefully the framework will be in plavce when it comes to a head...which it will at some point it's inevitable. BTW one of their favorite stories is about Martin Luther standing up to church leaders. So we will see...

Band on the Run

Is there an existing manual on the best way for nonJW parents to navigate this mess? Maybe it would be a good project for me. I tend to stay away from the Witnesses b/c it sets off a rage. The law is different in any state. If not a book, maybe a good law journal article.

It seems to me, looking at it casually, that you are damn whichever way you turn. In the NY area, this must be a hotly contest area between Jews and Christians formerly married to each other.

Black Sheep

What kept me out of the pool was knowing the consequenses of baptism. Knowing that some of the doctrines and rules were shonky, but had to be believed and adhered to, like it or not, or you would be DFd and shunned.

Put emphasis on critical thinking skills plus the fact that there is no nice way to leave the religion if you don't agree with it.

Think about giving them a project ................... like drawing up a list of Neo-Babylonia kings, showing which king reigned in each year.

You could print up a list of years from 625 to 539 and let them use the WTLib and the internet to make it easy for them, but offer no help except for, if necessary, filling in one of the kings to show them how it's done. Let them come to their own conclusions.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/55372/1/586-587-the-K-I-S-S-approach-no-VAT4956-Ptolemy-Josephus-needed

Black Sheep

Family study night.

Consider and compare Matthew 21:18-22, Mark 11:12-25

Consider and compare Matthew 8:28-34, Mark 5:11-17, Luke 8:26-39

Get them to comment on them from a humanitarian viewpoint. E.g. How many pigs were there? Who owned them? How would they be affected? How would people who depended on them be effected? How would people who traded with them be effected? What would people do with their food scraps now that so many pigs had been wiped out? Was this in the mountains in a lake, or in the sea. If it was both, did he do it twice? How long would it take for the smell to go away? Who should clean up the carcases? What did the pigs do to deserve this? If they were your pigs, what words would you use to get your message across? ".... they earnestly urged him to move out from their districts." Ask what other questions they can think of?

DesirousOfChange

Nathan, I dont see how he could be more benificial to them by staying in.

Once he is out, everything he says that is remotely negative will be construed as "apostate".

By staying "in", expressing concern over their young age can be legimate concern instead of just negativity.

RayPublisher

@Black Sheep - I looked up all those verses you suggest we read at family study night. Not to be dense, but what does any of that have to do with baptism?

The account of the demons going into the swine is weird but how would asking those questions about the account help dissuade them from getting baptized? Am I missing something?

blondie

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/26166/1/preventing-baptism-of-minors

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/186015/1/Legally-prevent-minor-chidren-being-baptized-Anybody-done-it-can-it-be-done

Black Sheep

The account of the demons going into the swine is weird

What is it that you find weird?

Would your kids find it weird? I was suggesting the questions for an exercise in critical thinking for them.

What did you think of the book?

Chris

RayPublisher

It just didn't make sense (to me) bringing up the account about Jesus sending the demons into the pigs without any explanation as to why I should read that to them. The thread is about preventing them from getting baptized and it didn't compute.

Haven't got the book yet I just read about it on Amazon like a day and a half ago, lol. Do you own their stock lol?

Preventing a minor child from being baptized if you are their parent

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