a SIMPLE answer re: 607 please

by RayPublisher 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Don't let them change the subject.

    If they have not been able to demostrate that there is a mistake in the king list (even using their own literature to get the lengths of the reigns etc.), then the mistake must be elsewhere. Leave it with them to sort that one out and get back to you with an explanation that isn't a change of subject or some kind of blackmail. Act offended if they try to fool you, blackmail you, or lie.

    Do not answer any question of theirs until they answer yours. They are just wanting a better subject, hoping you will give them something they can catch you out on, or to ID you as apostate.

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    bookmarking

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    I've always found this video simple and direct to the point.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrCleOXkYu0

    Personally, rather than trying to show your relative 587 B.C.E. you should get him or her to prove 607 B.C.E..

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    What paulnotsaul said.

    Syl

  • TDaze
    TDaze

    I don't understand the question, really. I mean...


    How could Jerusalem's fall be 587 but still be in line with the scriptures about 70 years of desolation that the WTO uses to push 607 so strongly?


    The answer is that the WTO made it all up for their doomsday prophecies. I don't see how you can go around in circles with this. Alternative answer: The bible is full of shit anyway. Why give it any more credence than it deserves?

  • RayPublisher
    RayPublisher

    @TDaze - Stating that YOU FEEL the Bible is full of shit is okay with me. But just SAYING that it is is not okay with me and many others on here.

    There are those of us that feel it is a book filled with knowledge and wisdom written by God and some of us would be offended by your words...But I do respect your right to that opinion. Freedom to say what we want and respect other people's feelings is why we are here.

    Not to be told by other's what is shit or not shit. *Hopefully* we can all figure that out for ourselves. We figured out the the WTO is wrong right?

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Jeremiah's prophecy refers to several nations, not just Jerusalem. Anything that confines this prophecy to Jerusalem alone is ignoring a significant portion of the prophecy. That being said, the time when SEVERAL NATIONS were SERVING BABYLON is where the 70 years should start. Figure that out, and there's no more need for debate.

    Consider, too, that the Bible mentions NO SPECIFIC CALENDAR YEAR for any of its events. It only mentions EVENTS themselves during the reign of a particular king or kings. The only way we know when those events happened is to examine secular history. That being said, what does the Watchtower itself say about how long the Babylonian kings reigned? See the YouTube video garyneal posted here. The only way 607 could be viable is if there's a mystery king for whom no records of his 20-year reign have been found, in an era of history that is pretty well-documented. Perhaps it was King Watchtow-Ussur...

    --sd-7

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    Some years ago I assisted an elder in his research on this topic. We found that the Society itself acknowledges that the Babylonian kings' list would prove that the Jews' stay in Babylon after Jerusalem's destruction was only 50 years. That is plainly stated in the book Babylon the Great Has Fallen! God's Kingdom Rules! published in 1963. And as sd-7 notes, Jeremiah prophesied about several nations being forced to serve the king of Babylon and not the Jews only.

    There is of course a mountain of evidence to show that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587/586 BC. But we all know why the WTS clings to 607 BC. However, there is another way of bursting that balloon. As I have done more than once, I have challenged Witnesses to find the number 2520 anywhere in Scripture. They can't of course. And if they point to the book of Revelation and its equating "a time, times, and half a time" to 1260 days and 42 months, you can always counter with the fact that John is specifically told the corresponding time measures whereas Daniel is not.

    Further buttressing this argument is a fact that the Society has deliberately buried and ignored. Nebuchadnezzar wrote two accounts of his madness. One is recorded in Daniel 4. The other is a clay prism written in cuneiform. In that document, Nebuchadnezzar says he was insane for seven seasons and those seven seasons amounted to parts of four lunar years. It seems that the Babylonians reckoned only two seasons in a year. The hot torrid summers (which the royal household spent in the mountains of present-day Iran), and the cooler, wet winters. Seven of those seasons would amount to three-and-a-half lunar years. That is nowhere near the seven years the Society figures.

    There is one more thing I will add. The WTS can not prove that a "prophetic" year was 360 days long. A lunar year is 354 days and change. A solar year is 365 days and change. That has been known from the most ancient of times. Nobody had a 360 day year, nobody. The WTS should know this. So its assertion that a prophetic year was 360 days long is completely false.

    I will conclude with this last damning point. Daniel was inspired by holy spirit to interpret Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Under the influence of that spirit what did he say the tree represented? Daniel 4:20, 22 answers, "The tree that you beheld, that grew great and became strong and the height of which finally reached the heavens...it is you, O king, because you have grown great and become strong." The teaching the WTS advances that there is some kind of "double application" of this dream has no foundation in Scripture. It is purely man-made, and certainly not of divine origin.

    Quendi

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    We found that the Society itself acknowledges that the Babylonian kings' list would prove that the Jews' stay in Babylon after Jerusalem's destruction was only 50 years. That is plainly stated in the book Babylon the Great Has Fallen! God's Kingdom Rules! published in 1963.

    Page no. please?

    Nebuchadnezzar wrote two accounts of his madness. One is recorded in Daniel 4. The other is a clay prism written in cuneiform. In that document, Nebuchadnezzar says he was insane for seven seasons and those seven seasons amounted to parts of four lunar years.

    Are you thinking of the Prayer of Nabonidus? Or something else?

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    My notes are in complete disarray, AnnOMaly, so I will have trouble finding the exact references, but I will diligently search for them. Most of my library is in storage and not accessible. Some of my material is on a laptop computer which no longer functions. But if I recall correctly, I do not believe the Prayer of Nabonidus was the source I was referring to, but I can't be sure. However, I'll leave no stone unturned to check my sources.

    Quendi

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