DEAR RICH FOLKS: Get Ready For A (Tax) Revolution...

by darthfader 88 Replies latest social current

• 

  Band on the Run

  When the const'n was amended and personal income taxation started, only the very wealthy were affected. Paying taxes was quite the status symbol. Of course, we are talking a long time ago.

  Taxing is so politcal, rather than policy-based. It is not coherent. The financial bail out is stunning. Those companies are prospering so much. Tiffany's, Cartiers are doing record business with the bonus money. Yet, if I can't pay my bills, I don't eat and I am homeless.

  Economics is my strong suit. I know just enough to know that I don't truly understand it, despite reading the Wall St. Journal and the Economist. The articles I can understand but I can't put in a grand context. Everyone seems to be screaming something from every conceivable angle.

  Most jobs are started by small business. Americans should be furious about the financial crisis. Considering the mess and that most of it was preventable with mere prudence, it would have been reasonable to bar overly large bonuses for a while. When has Treasury or the Federal Reserve worked around the clock providing credit lines for you.

  Imposing increased taxes on only the wealthy doesn't help generate wealth creation. If every middle class tax payers would join an association and pay for lobbyists to play hard ball, we could have an equal place at the table. We argue about whether the Dems or the GOP will help the middle class when both parties are screwing the middle class. Wall St. executives have no trouble paying multiple tutitions at Harvard, Yale, etc. while most families can not afford state colleges. Further, certain fields with no high financial reward, such as teachers and social worker, can only be entered by the wealth playing a hobby.

  The scariest thing for me is jobs. I keep reading new jobs will be very different and they will not emerge for quite a while. College seemed long enough a wait to earn decent income. Imagine studying now, knowing there are no jobs in your field and you are incurring debt by preparing for a job that does not exist. It chills the national character and our expectations.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Economics is NOT my strong suit.
• 

  Berengaria

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6AsO9q9-mE&feature=related
• 

  Berengaria

  Imposing increased taxes on only the wealthy doesn't help generate wealth creation.

  This is historically inaccurate. We had a thriving middle class when taxes on the top were 70-90%. And we still had those who became wealthy.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  I don't mind paying taxes. We need infrastructure and schools and roads and so on. If I was a multi-millionaire or billionaire or trillionaire, I'd even more so want to pay my share of taxes. I like the idea of a high quality of living for everyone. I don't mean everyone has to live a luxurious life, but a high quality life.
• 

  darthfader

  NC:

  “…The corporation farms get stronger, helped by government subsidies (tax money). It gets stronger than you because it has greater purchasing power. You have to charge more than they do because your operating expenses are simply higher. You don't have the same resources or power that the big corp has, so you can't wait for costs of things to go down, nor can you really bargain for better prices.

  Economies of scale at work... – to quote Wikipedia:

  “Many subsidy programs have limits on the size of the farm that can receive subsidies.”

  “…small farms receive more payments in relation to value of their crops than big farms.”

  I’m not for subsides, I think it works counter to the natural

  “Or perhaps you work in a factory. You are the third generation and your family has helped make this company great. Of course you didn't invest MONEY, but you did invest labor and time. The company sees that labor is a LOT cheaper overseas and packs up shop and moves. Is it fair? You don't have the money to move overseas.”

  You as the employee received wages for your effort. If part of your compensation package was Stock or Stock Options, then you would be part owner as well.

  “The fact is that none of these companies got their alone. They got their with the help of American workers.“

  Who were paid…

  The unwritten contract is "I will work for you, you will give me work." The company benefitted from subsidies and shelters and other loopholes, paid for by their workers' tax dollars. And the company says "Thanks and f*ck you!"

  Tax shelters and loopholes as they exist in the tax system MUST be closed…

  “NO ONE gets there alone! NO ONE... So yes, you should benefit from your great idea. But you didn't get there alone. “

  No, you are incorrect; I got there by paying my taxes which provide infrastructure (Roads, Police, Fire the Legal system etc.), my vendors who received a marketable wage or contract for their services.

  Beks:

  “Or let's say you are a capitalist, who makes their money sitting by the pool waiting for a check. Or you inherited it.”

  I have worked my butt off so that my children have a better start than I. I have set them up with money and (hopefully) a profitable business if something should happen to me and my wife. Are you saying that my efforts (via tax) should be given to the government? I know of a few small business owners when they died, their children could not keep the business and were forced to sell in order to pay the inheritance tax. Some of these people were small farmers. Tell me how that is fair?

  “It's not necessarily about what is fair, it's about what works. This is a society, no matter how much the right wants to focus on the individual.”

  The individual must be able to flourish or society will collapse. If you nurture society at the expense of individualism and personal freedoms, you will be left with an empty shell of a nation.

  “No one gets rich on an island. No one who works for their money gets rich without resources. Even the local dry cleaner is putting a bigger strain on the resources of my community than I am, why shouldn't they pay more?”

  You are correct that we are “not an island” - we exchange goods and services with others. I believe that many states and cities charge Dry Cleaning businesses with special fees, there is also an environmental impact fee on their supplies. Now I won’t argue whether it’s enough or not, but the mechanism is in place to exact price on the resources that Dry Cleansers use.

  “Is WalMart not using and abusing the highway far and away beyond what you and I are? Etc. etc. On and on it goes.”

  Walmart pays licensing fees on their own trucks and pays a tax on the diesel fuel used which is proportional to the mileage driven. Now, again, I won’t argue whether the taxes are the correct amount, but again, there is a mechanism in place to recapture that burden.

  cheers
• 

  NewChapter

  Darth you did pay taxes for infrastructure and roads, but you didn't build them alone. It was a group effort. As far as farms, are you familiar with Monsanto? Independent farmers don't want to sell out to Monsanto--the problem--they were allowed to patent life. As a result, they have taken farmers to court, because even though the farmers didn't buy Monsanto seeds, Monsanto claimed there was cross pollination. The courts have supported Monsanto. In the process they have bankrupted independent farmers.

  I suppose I should say "good for Monsanto, they really worked, they don't ask for handouts, all Americans should follow such an example". But then I see the trail of broken farms and people they leave in their wake, and I realize, something is seriously out of balance.

  NC
• 

  Berengaria

  Darth! Stop writing in another program!

  I have worked my butt off so that my children have a better start than I. I have set them up with money and (hopefully) a profitable business if something should happen to me and my wife. Are you saying that my efforts (via tax) should be given to the government? I know of a few small business owners when they died, their children could not keep the business and were forced to sell in order to pay the inheritance tax. Some of these people were small farmers. Tell me how that is fair?

  Herein lies the truly ingenious manipulation of the right. I'm not willing to search for the exact number at this moment, but it's over a million before inheritance tax kicks in. Jefferson even spoke of the detriment of the "artificial aristocracy". Dynasties. I'm sorry, I would really have to know the numbers and conditions by which the folks you know lost family business. To a bank? I can see that. To inheritance? Over a million? All of the discussion on taxing the top or business or inheritance is in numbers far beyond the average American. Policies that favor the very wealthy and big corporations is exactly what is squashing the little guy. The real drivers of our economy.
• 

  Berengaria

  “NO ONE gets there alone! NO ONE... So yes, you should benefit from your great idea. But you didn't get there alone. “

  No, you are incorrect; I got there by paying my taxes which provide infrastructure (Roads, Police, Fire the Legal system etc.), my vendors who received a marketable wage or contract for their services.

  Sorry Darth no one becomes rich alone. No one gets there alone. NC is absolutely correct. Without labor, without customers for your service, without the system we have all worked to preserve, etc. etc. And I assume you are not wealthy, this applies a hundred fold to the wealthy. Who are currently not paying their share. If you really believe that they are, then I can't argue with you.
• 

  NewChapter

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPbmPyqK52E