How do you reason with them?

by Walk On 15 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Walk On
    Walk On

    So let me set this question up. Sorry if its long!

    Recently my brother-in-law posted a link to a story on Facebook: " We're seeing Rev 17:12,13 starting to be fulfilled!! Expect all the nations of the earth to be eager to hand over power to the United Nations... it really the only thing yet to happen before the fall of Babylon the Great." that was his precursor to the story he was linking to: " Obama places the US military under UN control via yidwithlid.blogspot.com

    So likewise, a passionate attachment of one Nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite Nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest, in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former..."

    As you can see, he had no problem linking to a crackpot political blogger... It is not too well known that I have faded away from the Borg, but even so, I had to post, knowing that all his Borg friends and family would see my comments. I just thought it was irresponsible of him to be posting a bloggers opinion as fulfilling major biblical prophecy. Am I wrong? Further he had previously posted another headline: "Scientist says evolution wrong, proves creation right" and when I went and checked out this "scientist" he was some crackpot Catholic guy who also taught in links on his web page that the fossil record was faked, the earth was only 6000 years old, hellfire and lots of other stuff like that. I had previously called him out on it, much to my delight other Borgs told him he shouldn't be posting things without knowing where they came from. Evidently he didn't learn, and posted this link. I told him he was posting a Blogger's opinion, further that the blogger was misinterpreting Obamas words for politcal reasons. He then posted other links with quotes from Republicans, I reminded him it was a NATO mission not a UN one and that the Republicans, while manipulating the statement as well, were not making the same statement he was making, they were two different issues. He proceeded to tell me that "I know you're not a witness (marking me for all to see and to somehow invalidate my view), but even you can't deny the US is Satans pawn. Don't blindly believe everything the government tells you" I told him not to treat me like I was tottering down some dark alley, while he was holding out a flashlight for me, and that he was the one blindly believing whatever he read on the internet, coming from political bloggers! Then he deleted all of the comments that called him out and finished by stating " there's a great many web pages with the same news information. I first read about this a couple weeks ago, on an entirely different site. Whether this guy is wacko or not, the actual news piece is for real."

    Basically, how can you change their minds about things when it is so ingrained in them? I have tried to reason with my ex, pointing out many things I have learned off this site and she just rolls her eyes and says everybody knows these things and I'm trying to harp on un important things.... So frustrating and I wonder how you out there have reasoned with them, and any success?

    Sorry for ranting but the more information I have learned the more upset I have gotten with the organization. My daughter is being raised in it still and I used to be ok with that but now it feels infuriating that she is being brainwashed... urgh I guess I have brought up more than one issue here, but I welcome any feedback.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Reason and JW do not belong in the same sentence.

  • troubled mind
    troubled mind

    The only person you have any chance of reasoning with is maybe your daughter . It is your duty to start building in her a reasoning mind . Teach her critical thinking skills now so she will not grow up completely brainwashed by the JW's.

    Other than that you can't reason with those that refuse to reason.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    He just doing what he has been taught, read something that has been written in an authoritive style (e.g. The Watchtower), take it on face value and disemminate to the entire population as fact!

  • Found Sheep
    Found Sheep

    you just can't!

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    I agree ... you can't. I have been trying but I have to acknowledge that until I woke up on my own, I couldn't be reasoned with either.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Basically, how can you change their minds about things when it is so ingrained in them? I have tried to reason with my ex, pointing out many things I have learned off this site and she just rolls her eyes and says everybody knows these things and I'm trying to harp on un important things.... So frustrating and I wonder how you out there have reasoned with them, and any success?

    Have you read either of Hassan's books? If not, please do so.

    Never discuss doctrine. Your best tools are love and patience. Your goal is to empower them to think for themselves. Your goal is not to prove any specific, individual point of doctrine. Even if you prove a specific point, 'where else would they go'?

    It's a matter of authority. In their minds, WT = Jehovah. This will persist, if they do not learn to think for themselves.

    Step 1: Helping a person to identify irrational fears and phobias. Example: Fear of 'apostate' literature/websites.

    One thought-provoking QUESTION at a time can sometimes be effective.

  • donny
    donny

    The only way to reason with a JW is if they have to be only not only to ready and willing to listen to another viewpoint but also to really consider the evidence presented. Until they are ready for that, reasoning is futile.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    oh yea, reasoning with them, That's a real joke. Whenever I venture into "bang my head against a brick wall" conversations with a JW on a political event, they always end it with "we'll see". Especially when their point is countered with anything logical or factual.

  • Walk On
    Walk On

    Have you read either of Hassan's books? If not, please do so.

    Hassan? No I have not, what are they?

    Never discuss doctrine. Your best tools are love and patience. Your goal is to empower them to think for themselves. Your goal is not to prove any specific, individual point of doctrine. Even if you prove a specific point, 'where else would they go'?

    Funny you say that... I was talkingto my ex about the problems and lies of the society and her reply was "Find me something better." So I have a little hope I may be able to sway her... we'll see.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit