Pentecostals share the gospel and emphasize Christ as Lord God, Savior, Healer, Deliverer, Baptizer (Spirit), coming King. If you don't like Pentecostals, you will not like heaven because there will be many there. Should people also stay away from God/Jesus?
Refuting Franz's Crisis of Conscience
by irondork 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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mrsjones5
I've been sufficiently warned off of Pentecostals. Ya done good godz! *thumbs up*
Now back to the topic before godz derails yet another thread.
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Alfred
Godrulz... Did you lose pentecostal family or friends to the WTBTS... If so, posting on this site won't get them back... Just saying...
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whathehadas
in order to refute it............they would have to read it. i highly doubt many would attempt to, even in secrecy
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Band on the Run
Ignoring Ray Franz is the best policy for the Witnesses. Open, someone who has been libelled does not sue. If you sue or issue a statement against Franz, you republish the material and give it more publicity.
I can't recall how I found about Franz' book before the Internet. It may have been when Regis Philbin had a local talk show in NYC. Yes. Some dissident Witnesses were on for a small segment. One ran Fundamentalists Anoymous. I recall calling that station to ask for help with my issues. He told me I had no problems and how pressing the problems were. Suicidal, no friends or family, etc.
My mom and I ordered the book out of some interest. We did not sleep until the book was finished. Everything we always suspected was reported with documentation. And I grew up during Freddie Franz' tenure as chief theologian and writer. We burned to tell our Witness family members. It went awkwardly. My aunt was so close to a breakdown to even hear it,that we retreated.
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designs
Band-
Do you remember the 1980 District Conventions and the rants against Apostates. I think that would serve as the Official Watchtower response to Ray's Book.
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dozy
As previous posters have stated , the society have never issued a direct refutation as such. Their policy has been to completely ignore that Franz's books exist.
The WTBTS don't directly address apostate arguments , or indeed anything they perceive as negative. For example , they have never made any effort for a long time to justify 607BCE as Jerusalem's destruction. The UN issue has never been mentioned , nor issues concerning child abuse (though criticism of other religions , such as the Catholics , is often expressed). Their literature is completely designed to portray a "wonderful Jehovah's organisation" impression. Though they talk sometimes about the "candour" of bible writers (such as David) , they don't apply the same attitude to themselves.
It would be very difficult for a sincere JW to read the books & remain a JW - the documentation , quality of argument and sheer weight of scholarly evidence would be impossible to ignore. I personally read the books trying to give the WTBTS every possible benefit of the doubt , trying to find loopholes & justifications to stay a JW. Any JW , particularly those who have been longstanding and / or had some degree of responsibility would inevitably have to concur with the bulk of Franz's views.
Therefore my feeling is that not only have the WTBTS leaders not seen the need to refute Franz's writings , they also haven't read them. If aware of the books , they would view them as "spiritual pornograhy" and refuse to entertain them (in the same way as many JWs refused to watch the BBC Panorama program on paedophilia amongst JWs).
That said , on a certain level , they clearly are aware of the books to an extent. Some of the photographs published in the book have been subsequently used in WTBTS publications , such as the one of the JWs at Bethel celebrating Christmas. There were a couple of Watchtower articles in June 1992 on Christian Freedom that clearly are designed to counter Franz's "In Search of Christian Freedom" published in October 1991.
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No Room For George
There's never been a denial or refutation for the very reasons others mentioned, that being attention placed upon the issues that Franz, Dunlap, Dogpatch and others experienced and called the organization out on. In this day and age of media coverage, it would be a nightmare for one of the WT heavyweights to ever bring up the events that took place in those years. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a memo existant that stipulates that Fred Franz's name shouldn't be mentioned too often for fear that his nephew's name end up in people's conversations or consciences.
One other thing too, another reason why there's never been a denial or refutation of Franz book is really simple. Its that, there's nothing to refute or deny, as its beyond obvious that what he wrote about was true. Reading Crisis of Conscience and then reading the Proclaimer's book, is like reading The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, and then reading something Joseph Goebbels wrote. It's so obvious that one piece is historical and truthful, whereas the other peace is proganda in its worst form. Whoever gave the ok for the Proclaimers book to be published ought to be ashamed of themselves.
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TD
Whoever gave the ok for the Proclaimers book to be published ought to be ashamed of themselves.
LOL....And the scary thing is the Proclaimers books was actually a huge improvement over the 1975 Year Book and Jehovah's Witnesses In The Divine Purpose
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Quendi
The Proclaimers book came after the first printing of Crisis of Conscience. Hmm.... Anybody else see some "cause and affect" here? When the Proclaimers book was released at my convention, the speaker took pains to say that Jehovah's Witnesses had a rich spiritual heritage. The problem was that most Witnesses were completely unaware of what that heritage was or meant. Therefore the Proclaimers book was a "gift" from Jehovah to strengthen his people and educate them about their illustrious spiritual forbearers. This website has finally helped me to see that there may very well have been a connection between Crisis of Conscience and the publication of the Proclaimers book.
I remember the 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact, that was the last Yearbook I ever read cover-to-cover. I was fascinated by its contents and believed every word of it. Coming as it did in what the Society called the "critical year 1975" I thought it was a wonderful tool. The release of the Proclaimers book in 1993 did not get a similar reaction from me. I read the opening paragraphs, set it aside and never cracked it open again. I suppose I was tiring out even then although quite a few years would pass before I finally took my leave of the organization.
Now that Ray Franz is dead, I think the Society may believe it doesn't have to worry about him and his thinking anymore. But if recent events are any indication, it is wrong. The Internet is keeping his words and work alive and the campaign of silence against him has failed
Quendi