by Lore 98 Replies latest jw friends
Thank you, BTS...
Many people totally confuse social security tax with the income tax.
To be fair, so does the federal government - but I have assumed that this thread is about the progressive income tax; NOT about the anti-progressive social security tax.
Thank you, BTS... Many people totally confuse social security tax with the income tax.
Excellent point James_Woods ...
It makes absolutely no sense to speak about one tax (payroll) and not the other (income) or vice versa. Who really gives a rat's a$$ about what it's called when the federal government is taking it out of your paycheck? Federal tax is federal tax. Slice it, dice it any way you want but the federal govenment is taking it from you. When $250 comes out of my paycheck and goes to the fed, call it what you want, it is gone.
It's no different than state and local sales taxes. If there is a state tax, county tax, city tax or other tax on items that I purchase, it's still sales tax. If the total comes to 8%, it really doesn't give me a warm feeling on how it's split. I just know I am 8% poorer now.
Rub a Dub
Here is a question for you... Is it right for the financial burden to be put on the backs of the poor just because they are poor? Because they can't defend themselves because they are poor?
Is it fair the corporations who make billions of dollars in profit cry about a 35% tax rate and yet do not pay the 35% tax rate?
because they use tax loopholes they pay 0 in taxes and contriubte little to society?
Is it fair that small businesses are an "s corporation" where an owner of a business will make 200,000 a year and only pay himself a small percentage of that money say.. maybe 15,000 and only be taxed on the 15,000 instead of the 200,000? Meanwhile he is living like a king and contributing little to society.
The rich do not create jobs... Demand creates jobs if there is no demand there are no new businesses, expansion and hiring of additional employees. In fact without demand we have lay offs businesses close and the economy slows down. If you want to have a robust economy and plenty of profit we need to stop worrying about how to put even more money in the hands of the rich but we should be looking at tax breaks for the poor and ways to put more money in the hands of the masses who will spend spend spend and actually create demand.
Excellent point James_Woods ...
It makes absolutely no sense to speak about one tax (payroll) and not the other (income) or vice versa. Who really gives a rat's a$$ about what it's called when the federal government is taking it out of your paycheck?
The point is that the income tax is supposed to go to the Federal Government to use in the general fund; i.e. federal programs.
The social security (payroll tax) is supposed to go into the FICA system, and is essentially a federally mandated retirement insurance policy for the person who pays it in. You are theoretically supposed to get the payroll tax back after retirement. Same with medicare.
That was my point - that many people, approximately 50% of people, pay no income tax or even get a negative subsidy back from it.
You are theoretically supposed to get the payroll tax back after retirement. Same with medicare.
James_Woods ...
Very true. That was the original intent. Some theoretical lockbox with all of our names on it (Bobby, Billy, Sam, Betty, Annie, etc.) and the corresponding amount "owed" back to us ... sort of like our personal savings account.
As you know, those days are long gone. The lockbox has been raided. What is paid in today (income tax or payroll tax) goes into the general fund. We are simply working today to support those already retired. The hope for the future is that there will be enough people working to support us when we retire.
In either case, if the government treated our own contributions like a personal 401k plan or something similar, then yes, the payroll taxes should be treated separately. But in reality, the money just gets sucked out of your wallet. Call it what you want, it is gone.
Rub a Dub
As you know, those days are long gone. The lockbox has been raided. What is paid in today (income tax or payroll tax) goes into the general fund.
Yes, I know. Technically, SS payments still go into it's reserve fund, but that is immediately loaned to the federal government for general use. The reserve fund itself only holds increasingly questionable paper notes.
Sadly, it has been said that more young people believe in UFOs nowadays than believe that they will ever collect social security benefits.
The assumption is that rich people are rich because they work hard and take risks. That's bs. I know a lot of rich people that are incompetent assholes that are rich due to luck of being born into a rich family.
A member of society is entitled YES ENTITLED -
both remedial and preventive medical care including mental health care.
as much education as they can competently handle.
safe and adequate nutrition. (beans,cabbage, biscuits and rice)
transportation to and from work
safe and healthy housing.
Another assumption is that people don't want to work. People want to work. But they need compensation that allows them to purchase the above.
The rich are also lazy. Too lazy to come up with job creating uses for their accumulated wealth. That's why they keep chasing bubbles. It's hard work to build a company. It's easy to chase the latest bubble.
A member of society is entitled YES ENTITLED -
both remedial and preventive medical care including mental health care.
as much education as they can competently handle.
safe and adequate nutrition. (beans,cabbage, biscuits and rice)
transportation to and from work
safe and healthy housing.
Really? Who gets to pay for it by force? Am I not entitled to choose not to pay to resolve someone else's personal problems? Am I not entitled to retain the product of my own work? Is that right not stronger than your baseless claim to it?
My eyes are wide open. I am entitled to nothing that must be demanded from another. I have the right to provide for myself and my family. It is my right to give them the bread that I have earned without someone else stealing it to feed themselves before it gets to the mouths of my children.
That is my duty, and is not an entitlement.
It is this entitlement attitude that is ruining Western Civilization. I ask for nothing but to be treated fairly, and that I not be impeded in my affairs so long as I do not infringe on the rights of another.
you just mentioned "ethics" and "money" in one sentence. LOL!
you just mentioned "ethics" and "money" in one sentence. LOL!
Your statement seems to suggest that these two things are mutually exclusive.
Actually, a person can have both ethics and money, neither, or one or the other. Yes, there are jerks like Bernie Madoff, but there are also philanthopists like Bill Gates. What I find objectionable is the idea being popularized these days that the rich need to have their wealth confiscated simply because they are rich.
