by DavinciCodeBreaker 41 Replies latest jw friends
Ask him if the ACLU is God's spirit directed organization....they helped litagate and win many of those cases for the JWs and they won many of them before the witnesses were fighting.
"With the ACLU at their defense, the Jehovah's Witnesses won the case. The Supreme Court declared that no official could force anyone to declare his or her belief in any religion or nation [ref]."
By the same reckoning , the WTBTS losing it's "friend of the court" application in the Jimmy Swaggart US Supreme case in 1989 would therefore be proof that Jehovah's Holy Spirit isn't with the Watchtower. The decision meant that the WTBTS had to disband its direct pre-payment for literature scheme , with fundamental effects on its finances.
I used to have these occasional discussions with JWs who would make all kinds of dubious claims both personal & collective of Jehovah's backing - there isn't really any point. The fact is that all religions point to different "proofs" as support of their divine basis - I suppose it kind of goes with the territory. Maybe it is more acute with JWs who can't point to ornate buildings or emotional razamataz so they tend to clutch at straws a bit.
To start with, have the JWs really won more court cases than anybody else? (Whether in the USA or elsewhere). If indeed they have, then the Exclusive Bretheren would have to be close on their heels.
In earlier times, the legal system was not an avenue that was available to establish religious freedom with. Rather, during the Reformation in Europe, people had to win religious freedom by force of arms. And, typically, they attributed each military victory to their having the backing of God's Holy Spirit! (They also used that to justify their torturing to death of prisoners afterwards, too - but that is another story).
One such example of many was the Battle of Dunkeld, in Scotland in 1689. There, the Covenanters barricaded themselves into the cathederal, sang psalms, and fought off a vigorous attack by the Highland Army, which was still flush with their victory in the Pass of Killiecrankie. Of course, the successful outcome of the battle was all to do with God's holy spirit - and nothing at all to do with the fact that Highland leadership had by then collapsed!
Even in the case of the JWs, the court system acheived no success for them against Nazi Germany. In Europe, their freedom to practice their religion was likewise acheived by force of arms:
- only in the case of the Witnesses, it was somebody else who had to do their dirty work for them.
I would put their courtroom successes - where these have occurred - down to the fact that legal action was available to them. Otherwise, their claims of "success being evidence of God's spirit" are no different to those of any other religious group.
Bill.
sd-7 ... HEY BUDDY, watch what you say about the Packers, they may well be God's favorite team, can you prove otherwise?
Right on MR. Falcon.......That's like saying: "Given the Fact that no other team has come close to winning more WS titles than the Yankees (27) is unrefutable evidence of Jehovah's blessing by means of his Holy Spirit".....oh and jehovah loves juicing too.
smoky
Didn't they lose the Walsh case in Scotland where they wanted Witnesses to be classed as religious ministers to avoid national service? Or does the holy spirit's reach not extend to Scotland?
If it's true JWs have won more Supreme Court cases than anyone else how does that prove they have God's backing? If it wasn't them who won the most then it would have been whoever comes second. Maybe the ACLU or something. In that case would they have been God's organization?
All great points
Awen and slimboyfat I really liked your responses and will use these.
Thanks to everyone for their input. I was surprised that the only two teams that made into the analogies were the Packers and Cowboys...
I have a simple question - has the WTBTS ever claimed this in print (that the # of supreme court wins is evidence of the holy spirit)?
I cannot recall ever seeing this...
BTW - as a side point, does this also mean that the supreme court was itself guided by the holy spirit?
