Power and control. Life and death power and control over the entire lives of millions of people. That's all. No drug in the world can match the feeling.
Nickolas nailed it!
What is the ULTIMATE goal of the Watchtower Society?
by MrDarkKnight 78 Replies latest jw friends
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Nickolas
He continued to do so, such that he could ask probing questions of those who claim to "know" at age 12.
Do you not find the account of the child Jesus in the temple a little odd, Shelby? It is the only alleged account of the childhood of Jesus. Who was supposed to have witnessed it and subsequently wrote it down? Certainly not Luke himself. Mary asks her son what he's doing in the temple talking to the rabbis and the precocious little Jesus curtly reminds his mother that he's on his father's business. I mean, why else would he be there? Mary herself appears to have forgotten all about the Archangel Gabriel's visitation and all those angels telling her that she is the mother of the Son of God. One might have expected a stronger maternal memory, especially from someone alone among all women who had discovered herself pregnant without having done, um, well you know, the nasty. There are those who suspect that the entire story is a complete fabrication.
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Bella15
What is the ULTIMATE goal of the Watchtower Society? Honor their original purpose when they first incorporated their business - selling of books, tracts and magazines. Rutherford stroke gold when he took the reins of this business .
If you still believe in the bible: They also being used to deceive the world - the gospel is "veiled" to them and their followers b/c the "god of this age" has blinded them and the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ does not shine on them. They are part of the snare of the devil and are his captives to do his will.
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sabastious
Perhaps, dear one. In the meantime, some of us are just going to stick with the Truth... Christ... if that's okay with you.
It's not really ok with me, I'm sorry. I don't dislike people who feel there is only a single path to truth, but I will call them out on it if I'm not too tired to do so.
I do not believe that Christ believed himself to be the only way nor do I believe his intentions were ever to further that concept. It's plainly obviously, to me, that his message was to get out of that kind of thinking. Unfortunately his story was passed through oral tradition for so long before someone had the brains to write it down. "The way the truth and the life" requires blind faith that the oral tradition preserved those words accurately.
When I hear anyone claiming that Christ, as in the man from the Bible, must be communed with to benefit from what he did all those years ago my ears are indeed assulted. I can't help but think of the heaps of violence, destruction and death that has been facilitated because of such absolute messages.
Why do most Middle Easterners have disdain for the Western World? It's because we say we are better than them. Why do most westerners have disdain for the middle east culture? Because they say they are better than us.
If I was around an animal that I was told will become violent if I am too loud around it and I choose to be loud anyway, for whatever reason, and the dog attacked someone else because of my actions I could be held responsible for the damages. The second absolute language was placed in the Bible untold millions of people of the future were sentenced to bitter ends.
There is no reason to damn anyone for not turning to the Bible and it's Christ. It is irresponsible thinking to feel that someone's problems stem can from a lack of spiritual connection with a man who died 2000+ years ago.
What we should turn to is the reason in Christ's teachings and apply it in our lives while lauding the good results to our neighbors. Absolute language, within sacred text, creates human spiritual factions and as long as those factions exist there can never be peace.
-Sab
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diamondiiz
It's hard to say at this point. My guess is when Russell started the scam, he believed his own ideas, moved assets so Mrs. Russell wouldn't get any of it but being childless the assets remained with the corporation.
Rutherford came in and possibly believed Russell's crap initially but soon realized it was a scam so he build on it to make it a cult with him being the leader, he didn't have a problem using wts assets for his own pleasures.
The ones that followed probably still believed with more doubts appearing in the 70s as Ray Franz stated that some may not have believed the whole ideology.
Now, we don't know what GB 2.0 believes and what has been going in the secret chamber with these loons in charge for the last 30 years, I will take a wild guess is that these men know it's a scam but have invested a lot of their life and aren't willing to walk away from it with nothing. They have nothing so the best they can do is ride this thing out as long as they can. I don't know if they have the power to steal funds from the wts and escape, and are stuck in this lifestyle until they die. I don't see if they have the smarts to figure out the ultimate goal for themselves at this point and to what extend they care about the followers other than keep repeating the mantra over and over that the end is near. As long as the r&f keep following and paying the bills everything is A OK. Might there be a reason here somewhere why they don't appoint any new GB members???
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pontoon
True, GB and bethel heavies do not have the lifestyle of the rich and famous, but they have NO material responsibilities, EVERYTHING being provided for them. They also live in an enviroment where they are literally surrounded by hundreds of people that would KISS their feet. They are treated like GODS, bethelites brownnosing and kissing up to them in the hope they will rise to the status of bethel heavyweight. They THRIVE on the status they have and would never want to give it up, reason enough to keep it all going.
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AGuest
Do you not find the account of the child Jesus in the temple a little odd, Shelby?
If I were not who I am, perhaps I would have, dear Nick (peace to you!). But I did similar (got kicked out of the Baptist church at age 14 for asking questions - LOLOL! Was told I was not "ready" to "come to God"!)... so, no, I really don't think it odd.
It is the only alleged account of the childhood of Jesus.
Well, no, there is Thomas' account, isn't there? And there are verses that allude to it in, say, the Psalms. Even so, the Most Holy One of Israel didn't commission, let alone compile, the Bible. There's a LOT missing from what was written about my Lord, dear one. For example, Luke wrote that MANY had undertaken to write down the events. Yet, at the time he wrote HIS account, the "Bible" chronology indicates that Matthew's was the only other account written. What happened to all of the other "many"? Man picked and chose what went into the Bible canon, dear one... not God. Doesn't matter, though, does it... if we're not supposed to search the scripture, but go directly to Christ?
Who was supposed to have witnessed it and subsequently wrote it down? Certainly not Luke himself.
I can't say who witnessed it, but you're right, not Luke. He only wrote down what he was told. So, how do we KNOW? Me... I had to ask...
Mary asks her son what he's doing in the temple talking to the rabbis and the precocious little Jesus curtly reminds his mother that he's on his father's business.
If you take the transliteration of his "tone" that way, yes, I can see how you would presume him to be precocious. I see it another way, however: that he was simply being honest, as most children ARE/DO... until we "train" it out of them. He meant no offense, but merely fothrightness.
I mean, why else would he be there?
Okayyyy? I mean, really, what else in Jerusalem would have garnered his attention, truly? I can't think of anything. And we have many suchlike children today, whose interests are NOT in toys and such, but in science, technology, education, philosophy, art, etc. Can you really say he was much different than these, just because HIS passion was in learning the Law (or, rather, helping them learn it!)?
Mary herself appears to have forgotten all about the Archangel Gabriel's visitation and all those angels telling her that she is the mother of the Son of God.
Okay, let me put this in the perspective of a mother for you, dear one: you've been entrusted with the life and upbringing of the Son of God. You take him on his first trip to a MAJOR event in Jerusalem (the registration, which means there are a BUTTLOAD of people... and their carts, wagons, livestock, etc.)... and you lose him. For DAYS! What do you THINK a mother's thinking would truly be? "Hey, we left you behind but we know you're God's Son and so didn't worry because we KNEW you'd be okay until we found you?" Seriously? Not any of the mothers I know - LOLOL! Some of the ones I know get distraught when a kid is missing for 5 minutes in the grocery store... or less than that in the mall!
One might have expected a stronger maternal memory, especially from someone alone among all women who had discovered herself pregnant without having done, um, well you know, the nasty.
LOLOLOLOL! I know you've been married since, well, like since my Lord WAS a babe, dear one... but I can't say you've learned a THING about women in that time. So, let me clue you in: GUILT is something we don't handle well. In fact, we tend to deny OUR culpability if it raises feelings of guilt. Which is why YOU guys rarely "win" with us: we don't "lose"... not to the spouse/kids. Can't let that happen. Why? Again, guilt. Also, doing so is a sign of weakness. So, let's take this scenario:
Here, Mary's in Jerusalem... with my Lord accompanying for the first time. Since this a major time, there are BUTTLOADS of people in town... along with their livestock, carts, wagons, etc. Most assuredly there are robbers and other criminals, because "everyone" is supposed to register. Now, she's never had any problems with this kid before... and hadn't for the days they were there. So, why worry that he's not going to keep up and leave when she does? Of COURSE, he is! He's God's Son... I said we're leaving... he understands obedience/never balked before... so, we're all leaving! Nothing for ME to check on. Except... a couple days later, he's not around! OMG, I've lost the Son of God!!!
Well, uh-uh... can't be Mary's fault: has to be that kid. And so, when she finally finds him she responds AS VIRTUALLY ANY MOTHER WOULD DO: "What the HECK were you thinking, scaring the heck outta me like that!?" And he, "mature" child that HE is, responds bluntly and forthrightly: "Why did you have to LOOK for me? I mean, where ELSE would I be in Jerusalem, Mom? Hanging out with the fellas? Seriously?"
Had Mary calmed down and THOUGHT... had she KNOWN her son... she would have known EXACTLY where he was. She would have KNOWN that there was only one place he COULD be: the temple (I mean, what else WAS there in Jerusalem? Nintendo? Dirt biking? C'mon, Nick...). But HER concern was the SHE lost him - the Son of God. I'm telling you... the mothers I know panic much more over WAY less. Due to GUILT. Even unfounded... as was, here.
There are those who suspect that the entire story is a complete fabrication.
I am willing to bet, though, that they include a whole lot more MEN... than women. As to this particular account, I mean. Because men... fathers... would've have been, "Hey, he's 12. Virtually a man. He'll catch up. If not, we'll pick him up next year." Or, alternative, "Well, he ain't MY son. Since he's GOD'S Son... let HIM find him and get him home."
Know what I mean?
I hope this helps, dear one. I know that there are some women who might disagree with me, but I would wager (if I were a wagering woman) that more would agree. May not openly say/do so, but if they were truthful, they would agree.
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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sabastious
OMG, I've lost the Son of God!!!
If I were her I'd keep an eye on him at the super market.
-Sab
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ziddina
Control, control, control....
They don't have the brains to think beyond that.
It's almost a visceral need to control every aspect of the members' lives. EXTREMELY unhealthy - dysfunctional!!!
But I am becoming even more curious about those "shareholders" mentioned in a different thread... SOMEone's got to be getting rich off of this scheme!!
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AGuest
It's not really ok with me, I'm sorry.
No need to apologize, truly, dear Sab (again, peace to you!). I'm a big girl... and I can take others' truth. Without taking offense or feeling threatened.
I don't dislike people who feel there is only a single path to truth, but I will call them out on it if I'm not too tired to do so.
Okay. I mean, so long as you don't dislike us - LOLOLOL!
I do not believe that Christ believed himself to be the only way nor do I believe his intentions were ever to further that concept.
Perhaps. I can only go on what he has said to me... which, for those who need it to be, is corroborated by what he is recorded to have said. But what is recorded is irrelevant, really - what he SAYS is what counts, IMHO. When I asked him if I could ask the Father some questions, he said to ME, "No one comes to the Father except through me." Okay, I thought... and who are YOU? Yada, yada, yada...
It's plainly obviously, to me, that his message was to get out of that kind of thinking.
Well, then, YOU must go on what YOU "see", yes? I don't have a problem with that. I would just ask the same... ummmm... accommodation, if you can indulge me...
Unfortunately his story was passed through oral tradition for so long before someone had the brains to write it down. "The way the truth and the life" requires blind faith that the oral tradition preserved those words accurately.
Perhaps, for those who rely on the oral tradition and/or written words, yes. For those who hear it directly from him, though, perhaps not so much...
When I hear anyone claiming that Christ, as in the man from the Bible, must be communed with to benefit from what he did all those years ago my ears are indeed assulted.
But you haven't received that from me, dear Sab. The "man from the Bible" is not the One I look to... or am speaking of. If, however, your ears are assaulted by my sharing the truth, that the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH, is the "Way/Door/Truth", etc., then I have to say that that's on you.
I can't help but think of the heaps of violence, destruction and death that has been facilitated because of such absolute messages.
Not from me... and I don't know if was that message... as much as it was the message that if you DON'T believe in him, you're going to die... NOW, right now... as well as those who perpetuate[d] that message, personally and literally.
Why do most Middle Easterners have disdain for the Western World? It's because we say we are better than them. Why do most westerners have disdain for the middle east culture? Because they say they are better than us.
I am of neither ilk, dear Sab. My disdain is for man... wherever he hails from... who lies to, oppresses, enslaves, and/or murders... and/or mentally/psychologically/emotionally/and SPIRITUALLY... BINDS... his fellowman... for ANY reason... particularly those who do so "in the name of God"... and MORE particularly when they say that "God"... is Christ... and Christ SUPPORTS such conduct. Doesn't matter to ME where you come from, what hemisphere you're in, what culture you belong to or belief system you follow.
Contrastly, I am FOR... ANYONE... who lives their life in opposition to this, which is in SUPPORT of Christ. Regardless of your culture, religion, hemisphere, education, whatever. Such people show themselves to be a law "unto themselves". Because they do BY NATURE the things of the Law; they don't have to be TAUGHT. However, some of us... must be taught. Indeed, all those who do the things I mentioned in above. THEY are the only ones who really need to live in fear.
If I was around an animal that I was told will become violent if I am too loud around it and I choose to be loud anyway, for whatever reason, and the dog attacked someone else because of my actions I could be held responsible for the damages.
If you were, say, at the zoo... or at the place where the dog resides/is kenneled, yes. If, however, YOU have just as much right to be where you are... and perhaps the dog SHOULDN'T be... then the liability may not be yours... but the dog's owner (if he has one). Indeed, if the dog owner KNOWS the dog is potentially dangerous... and still has it where it can harm others... regardless of YOUR loud voice, the OWNER will be held responsible. That is the law, dear one...
The second absolute language was placed in the Bible untold millions of people of the future were sentenced to bitter ends.
Sorry, but I don't understand this statement. Can you clarify, please? Thank you!
There is no reason to damn anyone for not turning to the Bible and it's Christ.
Hey, whoa! I am confused as to why you would make such a statement to ME. I have never damned ANYONE... for not turning to the Bible or any other reason. NOR for not turning to Christ. Methinks you're confusing me with someone else, dear one. True, I share the TRUTH, that Christ is the Way to God. But you have NEVER heard me say/seen me post that if you DON'T turn to Christ... you're damned. All I've ever said is that you CANNOT see God... by looking to/in/at the Bible. Other than THAT... the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, shows mercy to WHOMEVER He wishes to show it. And for whatever HIS reasons are. Since Christ didn't judge... or condemn... ANYONE (but only their WORKS)... who in the WORLD am I to do so? You've misunderstood... and so are sort of mis-accusing... me, dear one.
It is irresponsible thinking to feel that someone's problems stem can from a lack of spiritual connection with a man who died 2000+ years ago.
Who said THAT? Not me! I am a FIRM believer that our problems stem from: (1) our choices; (2) our parents'/guardians' choices; (3) the choices of those we follow, which is, again, our choice; and (4) sometimes unseen challenges from the Adversary. NEVER said our problems stem from a lack of spiritual connection with ANYONE.
What we should turn to is the reason in Christ's teachings and apply it in our lives while lauding the good results to our neighbors.
I do NOT disagree. Where did you get that I would/do?? Do this is the VERY reason that the "sheep" are given white robes - NOT because they had a direct union with Christ. You should probably read a bit more of what I share... because I think you've come to some very wrong conclusions about what I believe and understand.
Absolute language, within sacred text, creates human spiritual factions and as long as those factions exist there can never be peace.
I AGREE! Which is why I keep trying to tell folks that the Bible... WON'T/CAN'T save them! I mean, if folks can't personally hear Christ, they should at least attempt to live the "law" he taught. NOT the Old Law... which was a Code of judgment and condemnation. But the law of LOVE... which Law says we MUST forgive, release, be merciful, compassionate, have pity... and do what is within OUR power... to love our brother, our neighbor, strangers... and even our enemy.
I am not sure what you think I believe, dear Sab... but I truly think you misunderstand me. Truly. I hope this helps clear some stuff up, though.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA