Are they really that weak willed?

by jean-luc picard 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  jean-luc picard

  Mr Falcons thread on jw partys made me think about my new family's get togethers.

  Once or twice a year, we have a get together/picnic ( around 40 or 50 mostly family ).

  We drink quite a bit of wine/ pernod ( our wives or 'sometimes husbands) drive home )

  I have never heard crude talk. People sware a bit, but in an amusing kind of way. We all have a great time.

  One person only, always gets blind drunk and is sick after the first hour. We dont approve of his drinking in excess

  but NO ONE has EVER dreamed of not inviting him because he is "bad association."

  One other young cousin is always spaced out. Hes very nice ( maybe the drugs). Has just become a dad. His wife is charming and interesting to talk to.

  No one approves of his taking drugs, but it has never even crossed our thoughts to not invite him.

  We are not going to start binge drinking, or taking drugs, just because we are associating with them.

  Are JWs really so weak willed that they believe that the presence of someone who is not exactly like them, even if it is someone they love, is going to make them fall into a life of god forsaken debauchery? If it is the case, then they are the feeblist of people.

  In the words of Karen Carpenter: "you've got to love me for what I am, for simply being me".
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  sizemik

  Are JWs really so weak willed that they believe that the presence of someone who is not exactly like them, even if it is someone they love, is going to make them fall into a life of god forsaken debauchery?

  I'm not sure any JW actually believes that JLP. Once again it's a blind obedience to WTS teaching. The motivation to comply comes more from the fear of the consequences from being seen associating . . . rather than actually catching a dose of debauchery. Although most JW's would never admit that. I guess that makes it no less feeble minded however.

  From your description . . . the excesses of others are more likely to serve as a reminder of the folly. I mean, visiting the cancer ward is more likley to encourage you to give up smoking than start.

  I've seen the doctrines of hatred more clearly since leaving . . . maybe it makes mass-annihilation more palatable.
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  WTWizard

  They use that to control others. They decide that listening to a song that glorifies drunken brawls is somehow going to make me start drinking and fighting. And they don't want to hear it when I let them know I had been listening to that song for close to 15 years, including while I was in college where beer was easy to get, and I didn't get drunk and start drunken fights. So, they say that I might stumble others into thinking it was acceptable for them to start listening to that song--even if I listen to it in my own home, with the records put away and the tape labelled only with numbers.

  Today, I sometimes listen to rap music with gun shots, every other word a swear word, and that glorifies selling and using drugs. However, I do not take or sell those drugs. Using them ruins your brain and your liver, and it is too dangerous to sell them because rival drug dealers are willing to shoot each other. But I listen to it solely for the entertainment value. To compare: The witlesses didn't want me listening to any Culture Club records because Boy George was a heroin addict. I was supposed to be seduced into taking heroin, or stumble someone else into taking it, by listening to the music.

  I believe all this crap is intended to prevent anyone from enjoying anything. You eat strawberries, kiwi, watermelon, or grilled foods, and you are "stumbling" someone into thinking you are celebrating the Fourth of July (or Christmas, if you are in Australia, New Zealand, or southern parts of Africa or South America). Eat certain candies, you are celebrating Halloween and/or Easter. Turkey, yams, cranberry sauce, and the like is associated with Thanksgiving and/or Christmas (in the northern hemisphere). You listen to music, it stumbles others. Watch a movie, there is the story about the hounder that enjoyed the movie while a new study was questioning it, and it bothered the new study forever. So, there is nothing to do but field circus, listen to Kingdumb sxxx, and attend boasting sessions.
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  Mr. Falcon

  Mon Capitan, it's actually a mixture of reasons why many JWs feel this way.

  First, they are taught that very strict "us vs. them" philosophy. So anyone who is different and not a "lover of Jehovah" (i.e. meeting the criteria laid out by the WTBS) is automatically out. Secondly, it's about image. Your typical Jehovah's Witness would not want other JWs to see them associating with such "Samaritan vermin" for fear of themselves being labeled as "weak." I've noticed this among many JWs who will only invite questionable people if it's a private small party with no other JWs (like a family reunion). But if they have JWs over, they wouldn't want to "stumble" any of their "brothers."
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  elderelite

  I agree with what the others have said totally. I associated with df'd relatives all the time but kept it quite. I never felt they would influance me to do something i otherwise wouldn't have but the social pressure is tremendous. Its part of (as noted) the us vs them cults need to survive and controlling memebers and such.... Its usually not easy or one factor alone with cults...
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  No Room For George

  I think it falls under Jesus' illustration of someone who builds their house upon a rock mass, and someone who builds their house upon the sand. He said at Matthew 7:24,25 that those who listen to His words and puts them into practice can be likened to someone who builds their house upon a rock. The rains came, the streams came, the winds blew, and the house being built on sturdy foundation held up. On the other hand, verses 26, 27, He said anyone who hears His words and doesn't put them into practice can be likened to someone who builds their house on sand. The rains came, the streams came, and the winds blew, and the house came thundering down with a big crash.

  Not to say that the WT discards Jesus entirely, but it goes without saying that some of the more important qualities Jesus displayed, and more important lessons He taught, aren't given as much attention by the WT as a publishing company, and as a result many JWs who's faith is dependent upon WT literature, often enough as a result, have flimsy convictions when under duress. Many JWs have not had their faith refined and battle hardened enough to withstand logical scrutiny of their beliefs and so called convictions. The WT knows this and as a result, are scared to death of JWs being exposed to people with lifestyles and views that go contrary to what the WT teaches.

  edit post: That chapter in Matthew, prior to Jesus illustration on house foundations, speaks on false prophets and being judgemental too. You do the math.
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  cult classic

  They aren't weak willed. They are afraid of their positions in the congregation.

  Let's say you host or attend a function and something "unchristian" happens on your watch. Some self-righteous fool might make a big stink about it. And the next thing you know, you're being hauled into the back room and questioned. The good standing you've worked so hard to secure within the congregation is threatened.

  Most JWs are all too familiar with this process and just don't want to risk the drama.

  edited: good thread topic and comments you guys.
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  jean-luc picard

  Thanks for your imput everyone.

  Of course, once upon a time I was a Dub, so I know why they act this way.

  But once your out, you realize how ridiculous the way they act is.

  I for one, would have towed the party line. Though I'm sure, deep down, that I would have seen the absurdity.

  If anyone still in is reading this then,

  for the love of God: stop hurting loved ones, just because they dont believe the same as you.
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  silver rhino

  I think there another reason witnesses are the way they are. It's all about keeping up appearances. It reminds me of the joke that I use to explain the conduct and hypocrisy of so many witnesses.

  How do you keep a witness from drinking all your beer at your barbecue?

  Invite another witness.

  I have seen so many witnesses able to"blend in", when they are by themselves. Unless they are real banana heads. But add another to the mix and all of a sudden it gets extremely stuffy.
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  applehippie

  For many years now I've sort of accidently been collecting funny drinking song songs. Such "Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off", "White Lightning", "Tear In My Beer", "all of Jimmy Buffet's songs, etc. Innocent really, but definitely not approved. Oh well, they make me laugh.