by wannabefree 224 Replies latest watchtower bible
I am wanting everyone here to trash every post I have made on this subject.
The last thing I want is a JW family member correctly pointing out some oversight of mine while I am in the business of trashing one of their cult doctrines.
So....... JW's out there ............. bring it on.
I want to know what my mistake is .............. NOW.
Rather than casting doubt on the reliability of Ptolemy's "king's list", this Watchtower article has instead shown that it is accurate as far as the kings it did list!
By filling in the missing Neo-Babylonian kings the Watchtower has simply made a more complete list for historical purposes.
Ptolemy's Almagest was completed around 150 A.D., over 1,860 years ago, and the book is still available to read!
The Watchtower has for years been upset about one piece of information contained in that work and have made multiple attempts to discredit Ptolemy as a reliable source.
What publications written by The Watchtower will still be read 1,860 years from now?
I remember when I discovered the Bible was bullshit. That was a real time-saver.
Here is a new thread that I started where I am asking a question related to this topic.
I posted this on another thread, but I think it fits here better!
70 yrs. exiled-586 or 607, Babvlonian Kings,1914,1975, overlapping generations..........
These type of debates and arguments about dates, time tables,prophecies, and when the end will come etc. etc. whether they are promoted the WT religion or any other man made religion is all a waste of time.
WHO CARES? The GB just uses this stuff to make the R&F think they are spirit-directed and because they have all the time (and your money) in the world to sit around and conjure up this crap they get away with it! The R&F are to busy trying to make a living,preaching and going to all the meetings, so whatever the GB says is just dandy with them.
The Bible and all the other “holy books” claim their source is from God and that we should pattern our lives after them and then command us to convert other people to do likewise.
The very fact that the “truth” is not plain and understandable by everyone proves these books are not from the Creator of the universe.
This is evident from the order in the universe, the Creator would never give his creation a jigsaw puzzle with several key pieces missing and then tell us to just figure it out especially if it meant your life. The Creator would certainly not expect us to let the likes of Russell, Rutherford, Franz and the gang hand the missing pieces out either, just look at how many WRONG pieces they have handed out over the last 100+ yrs.
These books are fairy tales from superstitious people who lived thousands of years ago to give them some sort of direction in their miserable lives. I mean come on goat herders, nomads,and tent dwelling tribal butchers are the ones chosen to record the word of God..give me a break.
Today in the 21 st century Christian’s, Muslims, Hindus etc.….... and especially JW's have locked up their God given gift of REASON and are trying to live in a fairytale in a modern day that easily dispels fairy-tales and at the point of human evolution that these things defy reason
I for one choose to watch my fairy-tales on the movie screen and deal with the reality of this life we have been given, we are in the here and now let's make the best of it and leave the rest to the Creator, and unite our belief in God with our gift of reason.
Peace
Kensho Satori
@Kensho, you wrote:
I posted this on another thread, but I think it fits here better!
70 yrs. exiled-586 or 607, Babvlonian Kings,1914,1975, overlapping generations..........
These type of debates and arguments about dates, time tables,prophecies, and when the end will come etc. etc. whether they are promoted the WT religion or any other man made religion is all a waste of time.
WHO CARES? The GB just uses this stuff to make the R&F think they are spirit-directed and because they have all the time (and your money) in the world to sit around and conjure up this crap they get away with it! The R&F are to busy trying to make a living,preaching and going to all the meetings, so whatever the GB says is just dandy with them.
The Bible and all the other “holy books” claim their source is from God and that we should pattern our lives after them and then command us to convert other people to do likewise.
The very fact that the “truth” is not plain and understandable by everyone proves these books are not from the Creator of the universe.
This is evident from the order in the universe, the Creator would never give his creation a jigsaw puzzle with several key pieces missing and then tell us to just figure it out especially if it meant your life. The Creator would certainly not expect us to let the likes of Russell, Rutherford, Franz and the gang hand the missing pieces out either, just look at how many WRONG pieces they have handed out over the last 100+ yrs.
These books are fairy tales from superstitious people who lived thousands of years ago to give them some sort of direction in their miserable lives. I mean come on goat herders, nomads,and tent dwelling tribal butchers are the ones chosen to record the word of God..give me a break.
Today in the 21 st century Christian’s, Muslims, Hindus etc.….... and especially JW's have locked up their God given gift of REASON and are trying to live in a fairytale in a modern day that easily dispels fairy-tales and at the point of human evolution that these things defy reason
I for one choose to watch my fairy-tales on the movie screen and deal with the reality of this life we have been given, we are in the here and now let's make the best of it and leave the rest to the Creator, and unite our belief in God with our gift of reason.
Peace
Kensho Satori
I think SweetBabyCheezits summarized your entire paragraph with:
I remember when I discovered the Bible was bullshit. That was a real time-saver.
MeanMrMustard
They don't have a leg to stand on. The 70 years clearly refers to the 70 years of Babylonian dominance, not 70 years of servitude.
http://144000.110mb.com/607/i-2.html#E
The seventy-year prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11 did not apply to Jerusalem and Judah alone but to all nations which fell under the domination of the Babylonian Empire. These nations as a unit, comprising the Babylonian Empire collectively, served the king(s) of Babylon seventy years. [top]
The meaning and scope of Jeremiah 25:11 can only be understood in the context of other highly relevant verses of chapter 25 and elsewhere. Regrettably, much of the Jehovah’s Witnesses' confusion stems in large part from excising, or separating, Jeremiah 25:11 from other pertinent verses and presenting it in isolation. The Jehovah's Witnesses’ truncated rendering of Jeremiah 25:11 is just one part of the prophecy and greatly mischaracterizes the sweeping scope of foretold events since the seventy years of servitude was unquestionably directed to all nations that eventually came under the domination of the Babylonian Empire, and not merely the Jews of Judah. For the sake of clarity and to better understand the reach of Jeremiah 25:11 additional integral verses 8 - 29 are reproduced in their entirety:
8 “Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘“For the reason that YOU did not obey my words, 9 here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even [sending] to Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite. 10 And I will destroy out of them the sound of exultation and the sound of rejoicing, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the hand mill and the light of the lamp. 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’
12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite. 13 And I will bring in upon that land all my words that I have spoken against it, even all that is written in this book that Jeremiah has prophesied against all the nations. 14 For even they themselves, many nations and great kings, have exploited them as servants; and I will repay them according to their activity and according to the work of their hands.’”
15 For this is what Jehovah the God of Israel said to me: “Take this cup of the wine of rage out of my hand, and you must make all the nations to whom I am sending you drink it. 16 And they must drink and shake back and forth and act like crazed men because of the sword that I am sending among them.”
17 And I proceeded to take the cup out of the hand of Jehovah and to make all the nations drink to whom Jehovah had sent me: 18 namely, Jerusalem and the cities of Judah and her kings, her princes, to make them a devastated place, an object of astonishment, something to whistle at and a malediction, just as at this day; 19 Phar´aoh the king of Egypt and his servants and his princes and all his people; 20 and all the mixed company, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Phi·lis´tines and Ash´ke·lon and Ga´za and Ek´ron and the remnant of Ash´dod; 21 E´dom and Mo´ab and the sons of Am´mon; 22 and all the kings of Tyre and all the kings of Si´don and the kings of the island that is in the region of the sea; 23 and De´dan and Te´ma and Buz and all those with hair clipped at the temples; 24 and all the kings of the Arabs and all the kings of the mixed company who are residing in the wilderness; 25 and all the kings of Zim´ri and all the kings of E´lam and all the kings of the Medes; 26 and all the kings of the north who are near and far away, one after the other, and all the [other] kingdoms of the earth that are on the surface of the ground; and the king of She´shach himself will drink after them.
27 “And you must say to them, ‘This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said: “Drink and get drunk and puke and fall so that YOU cannot get up because of the sword that I am sending among YOU.”’ 28 And it must occur that in case they refuse to take the cup out of your hand to drink, you must also say to them, ‘This is what Jehovah of armies has said: “YOU will drink without fail. 29 For, look! it is upon the city upon which my name is called that I am starting off in bringing calamity, and should YOU yourselves in any way go free of punishment?”’
“‘ YOU will not go free of punishment, for there is a sword that I am calling against all the inhabitants of the earth,’ is the utterance of Jehovah of armies.
Obviously, the Jehovah’s Witnesses left much out, no doubt an inadvertent oversight. Nonetheless, the following observations are in order. First, Jeremiah’s prophetic words in verse 13 were directed “against all the nations” and not just Judah.
“ And I will bring in upon that land all my words that I have spoken against it, even all that is written in this book that Jeremiah has prophesied against all the nations.”
Secondly, service to the king of Babylon was not limited to Judah because Jeremiah used the plural “these nations” at Jeremiah 25:11. Third, verse 9 dictates a broader reading because Jehovah was going to send Nebuchadnezzar “… against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about …,” not only against Judah.
Fourth, to make it perfectly clear which nations Jeremiah directed the prophesies to they are listed in the same chapter at verses 15-26. Jeremiah was instructed to take the cup of the wine of rage out of the Lord’s hand and make all the nations, who would succumb to the Babylonian Empire, drink it. These nations included Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, Egypt, the Medes, and roughly 20 other nations and/or kingdoms, and “all the [other] kingdoms of the earth that are on the surface of the ground; …” (Jeremiah 25:15,16). Even though Judah was one of these nations that would serve, or fall, under the dominion of the Babylonian Empire which spanned seventy years from 609 B.C.E. to 539 B.C.E., it was by no means the only nation to whom the seventy-year prophecy was directed.
Fifth, additional evidence that Jeremiah 25:11 did not apply only to Judah and Jerusalem is found at Jeremiah 27:6,7, also written during the beginning of Jehoiakim’s reign. There, Jehovah stated in no uncertain terms with respect to nations surrounding and including Judah that he had “given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon” and that “all the nations must serve even him, and his son and his grandson until the time even of his own land comes ….”
1 In the beginning of the kingdom of Je·hoi´a·kim the son of Jo·si´ah, the king of Judah, this word occurred to Jeremiah from Jehovah, saying: 2 “This is what Jehovah has said to me, ‘Make for yourself bands and yoke bars, and you must put them upon your neck. 3 And you must send them to the king of E´dom and to the king of Mo´ab and to the king of the sons of Am´mon and to the king of Tyre and to the king of Si´don by the hand of the messengers who are coming to Jerusalem to Zed·e·ki´ah the king of Judah. 4 And you must give them a command for their masters, saying:
“‘“This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said; this is what YOU should say to YOUR masters, 5 ‘I myself have made the earth, mankind and the beasts that are upon the surface of the earth by my great power and by my stretched-out arm; and I have given it to whom it has proved right in my eyes. 6 And now I myself have given all these lands into the hand of Neb·u·chad·nez´zar the king of Babylon, my servant; and even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 And all the nations must serve even him and his son and his grandson until the time even of his own land comes, and many nations and great kings must exploit him as a servant.’
This statement of Jehovah’s sweeping grant of authority to Nebuchadnezzar, whereby those lands and beasts of the field had been given to serve him and that all the nations must serve the king of Babylon, generally mirrors the prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11 and related verses.
Sixth, if Judah alone was to serve the king of Babylon seventy years it would nullify the prophecy with respect to almost every other nation because not all nations would have been able to serve Babylon seventy years. The king of Babylon in 609 B.C.E, Nabopolassar, brought Assyria to its end at the final battle at Haran. If the seventy years of servitude applied to only one nation, it could only apply to the conquered nation Assyria when Haran fell (and any other nations conquered by the Babylonians (Chaldeans) in that year). All other nations could logically only serve less than seventy years, including Judah. If Judah was the only nation to whom the prophecy applied, and it applied only to Judah and Jerusalem commencing with their destruction in the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign, all other nations conquered by Nebuchadnezzar in the preceding 18 years would have served Babylon in excess of seventy years, and those conquered after Jerusalem and Judah fell would have served less than seventy years. Such an interpretation would nullify Jehovah’s word which directed the prophecy to all the nations and which could only be satisfied if the seventy-year period of servitude was a composite, an epoch of time that applied collectively to all conquered or dominated nations as a whole. A parallel can be drawn with the military campaign of Hitler's Third Reich which spanned six years between 1939 and 1945, even though not all of the nations conquered by the Nazis fell under its domination the entire six year period. Czechoslovakia was under Hitler's domination longer than France.
Seventh, if Jerusalem and Judah as one nation among “these nations” served seventy years, history, even according to the Jehovah’s Witnesses would be turned on its head because it would imply that Babylon conquered no other nations before destroying Jerusalem and Judah; that is, Jerusalem and Judah would have to be the first to succumb to the Babylonian expansion in Nebuchadnezzar’s 18th year as king. The implication would be that Nebuchadnezzar conquered no other nations during his first 18 years as king, but that simply is not the case.
Eighth, sometimes the phrase “king of Babylon” refers to the kings of Babylon as a whole or whoever the king might have been at any particular time without specifically identifying him by name. Such is the case with respect to the prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11 whereby Judah and the nations of the earth would serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Service to this king however was not limited to Nebuchadnezzar or even his son or grandson as stated at Jeremiah 27:7 but included Nebuchadnezzar's father Nabopolassar who finished off Assyria in 609 B.C.E., and other kings besides Nebuchadnezzar’s blood relatives.
And all the nations must serve even him and his son and his grandson until the time even of his own land comes, and many nations and great kings must exploit him as a servant (Jeremiah 27:7).
This is not an all-encompassing list of the kings of Babylon which the nations served seventy years. Even 607- defenders in Setting the Record Straight are of the same view:
In fulfillment of Jeremiah 27:7, the exiled Jews did in fact literally serve Nebuchadnezzar’s son (Evilmerodach) and Nebuchadnezzar’s grandson (co-regent Belshazzer, whose mother was reportedly Nebuchadnezzar’s daughter, Nitocris). However, the captive Jews also served other kings of Babylon, including Neriglissar, Labashi-Marduk and Nabonidus, none of whom bore any blood relation to Nebuchadnezzar. Thus, the words at Jeremiah 27:7, though indisputably true, were obviously not meant to be an all-encompassing list of rulers whom the Jews would serve during the seventy years.
As mentioned, to this more encompassing list should be added another king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar’s father Nabopolassar whose final destruction of his nemesis Assyria at Haran in 609 B.C.E. gave rise to the Babylonian Empire and the commencement of the seventy years of servitude. Servitude began with Nebuchadnezzar’s father Nabopolassar and ended with the death of Belshazzer in 539 B.C.E. In accord with the Dominant Babylonian Empire theory the nations of the earth collectively served the many kings of Babylon from 609 B.C.E. to 539 B.C.E. for a total of seventy years in fulfillment of the prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11.
Ninth, in chapter 25 of the book of Jeremiah, with respect to Judah and Jerusalem, Jeremiah foretold what lay in their future beginning in the first year of Nebuchadnezzar onward. The land of Judah would become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, which it was. However, determining the exact year the devastation began is not necessary because proving a full seventy years of devastation is irrelevant in as much as the seventy years pertained to servitude, not devastation. They are separate concepts.
As explained in detail below, there is no valid “seventy years of devastation” theory and therefore the fact that the Babylonian Empire commenced in 609 B.C.E. - three or four years before Jeremiah delivered the prophecy - is not material. As it pertained to devastation, yes, that was in Judah’s future, but the seventy-year duration of that devastation is a non-issue.
As stated, the many nations which served Babylon a collective seventy years described in Jeremiah 25:11 began to serve in 609 B.C.E. when Assyria was overcome at the final battle of Haran. The fact that Jeremiah said that “these nations will serve the king of Babylon” does not mean the beginning of the full seventy years of servitude was still in the future, which some 607-defenders argue, would disprove the Dominant Babylonian Empire theory. Their confusion stems from an incorrect understanding of the word “will” which they insist only applies to future events, but that is not the case.
“Will” has multiple meanings. It is frequently employed to connote occurrences, conditions, events or actions which do not lie in the future. The dictionary offers numerous examples.
People will do right. You will not have forgotten him. This will be right. People will talk. You will often see him sitting there. Boys will be boys.
Even though servitude of many nations to Babylon was a future event, some nations had already been serving since 609 B.C.E. and the “will” of Jeremiah 25:11 therefore could not be strictly limited to all the nations’ future servitude. Assyria had already been serving when Jeremiah spoke the prophecy, and Nebuchadnezzar conquered countries from Hattu to Babylon before he dealt with Judah. Therefore, since nations which were among those listed at Jeremiah 25:17-26, who tasted the cup of Jehovah’s rage, had already been serving when the prophecy was delivered, the “will” of Jeremiah 25:11 referred to past events, conditions or occurrences (servitude) as well as future servitude.
To illustrate further, a man has served five years in prison and believes, mistakenly, that he is scheduled to be released, but the prison warden says “No, you will have to serve ten years.” The warden is not saying he would serve ten more years, but that he would serve five more years in addition to the previous five years. The prisoner will serve the full ten years.
The same reasoning applies to Jeremiah 25:11. “Will have to serve” does not foreclose prior servitude of Assyria and other conquered nations. The seventy years of collective servitude commenced in 609 B.C.E. This is the only proper rendering which harmonizes comfortably with the Dominant Babylonian Empire theory. “Will” does not always refer to future events, but can include past and current events.
Finally, even if the Dominant Babylonian Empire theory were to be proven wrong, that does not mean the Jehovah’s Witnesses are right by default. Their theories must stand or fall on their own merits.
The JW's theory that the end of the 70 years occurred when the Jews returned to the homeland is scripturally impossible.
http://144000.110mb.com/607/i-3.html#G
The nations' seventy years of servitude ended in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon fell to the Persians and Medes while the exiles were still in Babylon, thus bringing to a conclusion the servitude prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11, before the Jews returned home. [top]
So, in light of Jeremiah’s detailed explanation in chapter 25 and elsewhere that the seventy years of servitude applied to the nations of the earth that came under the domination of Babylon, the Dominant Babylonian Empire theory, what did he intend to convey in his letter to the exiles at Jeremiah 29:10? Did he mean that after the nations collectively finished serving Babylon seventy years when the empire fell he would turn his attention to the exiles and return them home? Or did he mean, as the Jehovah’s Witnesses argue, that after the exiles returned home to Judah after having served at Babylon seventy years, beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem, he would turn his attention to them and bring them home from Babylon? That doesn't make sense, but that is precisely what they are arguing, even though on its face it is obviously illogical. None-the-less, even assuming that their interpretation is correct it fails repeatedly under a simple test.
Under the test, if the seventy-year period ended in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon fell and the Persians and Medes began to reign while the exiles were still in Babylon, the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Return theory fails in three significant ways: a) the seventy years obviously did not end upon their return in 537 B.C.E., b) their seventy-year period amounts to only 68 years from 607 B.C.E. to 539 B.C.E., and c) from the fall of Babylon in October 539 B.C.E. to the exiles’ return to Judah in 537 B.C.E. there was no king of Babylon to serve. So when exactly did the prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11 end, whereby “these nations” would stop serving the king of Babylon seventy years? It ended in October, 539 B.C.E., not upon their return in 537 B.C.E.
First, nowhere in the Bible does it state that the return of the Jews marked the end of the seventy years. Second, Leviticus 26:32-35 whereby Moses prophesied the pending curse and punishment that befell the Jews states that Jehovah would scatter them among the nations and that the land would become a desolation, and Judah would pay off its Sabbaths all the days of its lying desolate while the exiles were in the land of their enemies, Babylon, and not after they returned.
32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate, and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it. 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations, and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU; and YOUR land must become a desolation, and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.
34 “‘At that time the land will pay off its sabbaths all the days of its lying desolated, while YOU are in the land of YOUR enemies. At that time the land will keep sabbath, as it must repay its sabbaths. 35 All the days of its lying desolated it will keep sabbath, for the reason that it did not keep sabbath during YOUR sabbaths when YOU were dwelling upon it.
So even though the exiles had not reoccupied the desolated lands and were still in Babylon, the seventy-year prophetic curse ended.
Third, Jeremiah 25:12 states that only after the seventy years had ended, or been fulfilled, Jehovah would call to account against the king of Babylon, which he did beginning with its fall to Cyrus in October 539 B.C.E., one date the Jehovah’s Witnesses and everyone else seem to agree on. The seventy years ended when Babylon fell, not two years later when the exiles stepped foot back on the soil of Judah.
12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite. 13 And I will bring in upon that land all my words that I have spoken against it, even all that is written in this book that Jeremiah has prophesied against all the nations. 14 For even they themselves, many nations and great kings, have exploited them as servants; and I will repay them according to their activity and according to the work of their hands.’”
Fourth, Jeremiah 29:10 likewise concludes the end of the seventy-year period of servitude while the Jews were in Babylon, not after they returned.
10 “For this is what Jehovah has said, ‘In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon I shall turn my attention to YOU people, and I will establish toward YOU my good word in bringing YOU back to this place.’
11 “‘For I myself well know the thoughts that I am thinking toward YOU,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘thoughts of peace, and not of calamity, to give YOU a future and a hope. 12 And YOU will certainly call me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to YOU.’
13 “‘And YOU will actually seek me and find [me], for YOU will search for me with all YOUR heart. 14 And I will let myself be found by YOU,’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘And I will gather YOUR body of captives and collect YOU together out of all the nations and out of all the places to which I have dispersed YOU,’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘And I will bring YOU back to the place from which I caused YOU to go into exile.’
After the seventy years ended Jehovah would turn his attention to his people and bring them back. The seventy years had to end first in 539 B.C.E., in Babylon, and only then would his people be gathered together and brought back.
Fifth, 2 Chronicles 36:20 states that the captives removed to Babylon would be servants to the king “until the royalty of Persia began to reign,” which began October 539 B.C.E. and not until the exiles physically returned to Judah two years later.
"Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; ... "
Both sides agree that Babylon fell to the Persians in October 539 B.C.E. That fall signaled the beginning of Persia’s reign. The prophet Daniel foretold its sudden collapse when he interpreted the writing on the wall for Babylon’s king Belshazzer,“This is the interpretation of the word: MENE, God has numbered [the days of] your kingdom and finished it.” And he did in 539 B.C.E.
Sixth, the Jehovah’s Witnesses at page 24 contradict themselves because they also claim that Ezra wrote that the seventy years ran until the first year of Cyrus which they submit was his first regnal year, which would actually be his second year of having power.
... the inspired Bible writer Ezra reported that the 70 years ran until “the first year of Cyrus the king of Persia,” who issued a decree allowing the Jews to return to their homeland. (Ezra 1:1-4; 2 Chronicles 36:21-23)
At Ezra 1:1, reference is made to “the first year of Cyrus,” not “the year Cyrus became king” (or accession year), so he was speaking of the first regnal year of Cyrus, which cuneiform documentation places in 538/537B.C.E. Jewish historian Josephus corroborates by referring to “the first year of the reign of Cyrus.”—Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, Chapter I.
This statement is false. The inspired Bible writer Ezra never said that, and furthermore, their position contradicts the Jehovah’s Witnesses' own claim under its Return theory that the seventy years ran until the exiles returned to Judah in the fall of 537 B.C.E., long after the decree setting them free was issued, and after Cyrus began to reign. Not only is it a contradiction, but it is not correct. In the first place it contravenes 2 Chronicles 36:22 just quoted which pegs the end of the 70 years at the inception of the reign of Persian royalty, which began immediately when Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E., not one year later beginning with the second, or ‘regnal’ year of Cyrus’ rule. Again, common sense is in order. Setting the Record Straight at 24 claims “the first year of Cyrus” was his first regnal year which would be his second actual year of ruling Babylon. However that would create a one-year gap between Babylon’s fall and the Persians’ reign, and surely no one could suggest that when Cyrus made his triumphant entry 16 days after Babylon’s fall in October 539 B.C.E. to his army that the reign of Persia had not yet begun or that the Babylonian Empire was still ruling and in control. Daniel said that the Babylonian kingdom was finished.
Read Ezra 1:1-4 and 2 Chronicles 36:21-23 carefully. Ezra did not state that the seventy years ran until the first regnal (or second actual) year of Cyrus the Persian’s reign. Ezra did not say that in order for the seventy years to come to an end Cyrus had to issue his decree setting them free which was long after Persia began to rule. One of their contradictions ends in Babylon, the other in Judah, and it is strategically and scripturally not feasible to occur at the exact same time or in the same year.
So what basis do the Jehovah’s Witnesses claim supports their belief that the seventy-year prophecy ended upon the exiles’ return to Judah in 537 B.C.E. and not earlier when Babylon fell to Persia in 539 B.C.E.? Nothing, as it turns out, although they allude to their reasoning in Setting the Record Straight at p. 25, 26:
“And in the first year of Cyrus the king of Persia, that Jehovah’s word from the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, Jehovah roused the spirit of Cyrus the king of Persia so that he caused a cry to pass through all his realm.”—Ezra 1:1 (see also 2 Chronicles 36:22).
The highlighted portion of the above-quoted verse serves as unimpeachable evidence that “Jehovah’s word from the mouth of Jeremiah” had not yet been accomplished, even by the “first year of Cyrus,” proving conclusively that the conquest of Babylon by Persia was not the determining factor in fulfilling Jeremiah’s prophecy.
All that this vague and convoluted assertion attempts to state is that the seventy-year period allegedly ended when the Jews returned in 537 B.C.E. and not when Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.; that the Jews’ return had not happened by the time Babylon fell. Well, of course it hadn’t, but more importantly, it wasn’t a requirement because the seventy years ended in 539 B.C.E., not on their return. Because their return happened two years after Persia conquered Babylon, the Dominant Babylonian Empire theory fails, they claim, because Babylon was conquered two years before their return.
This false and distorted piece of logic begs the essential question: “When did the seventy years end?” Had they been forthcoming and actually quoted Jehovah’s word from the mouth of Jeremiah rather than force the reader to hunt for its meaning it would have been self-evident, but more importantly, it would have proven them wrong which is perhaps why they did not wish to bring it to the readers' attention in the first place.
We can determine what Jehovah’s word was by reference to Ezra 1:1-4 and 2 Chronicles 36:22 which they quote in support of their position. And even though neither one of these verses specify what the word of Jehovah was either, the context and subject matter of these Scriptures indicates that it referres to Jehovah’s promise to return the Jews and Cyrus’ decree setting them free.
1 And in the first year of Cyrus the king of Persia, that Jehovah’s word from the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, Jehovah roused the spirit of Cyrus the king of Persia so that he caused a cry to pass through all his realm, and also in writing, saying:
2 “This is what Cyrus the king of Persia has said, ‘All the kingdoms of the earth Jehovah the God of the heavens has given me, and he himself has commissioned me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. 3 Whoever there is among YOU of all his people, may his God prove to be with him. So let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and rebuild the house of Jehovah the God of Israel—he is the [true] God—which was in Jerusalem. 4 As for anyone that is left from all the places where he is residing as an alien, let the men of his place assist him with silver and with gold and with goods and with domestic animals along with the voluntary offering for the house of the [true] God, which was in Jerusalem.’”(Ezra 1:1-4 see also 2 Chronicles 36:22,23).
Jehovah’s word related to the return of the Jews and is found at Jeremiah 29:10. But only after the seventy years had ended would he turn his attention to returning the Jews.
10 “For this is what Jehovah has said, ‘In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon I shall turn my attention to YOU people, and I will establish toward YOU my good word in bringing YOU back to this place.’
This, in actuality, is unimpeachable evidence that the seventy years of servitude came to an end first in 539 B.C.E. and only later, in 537 B.C.E. would the Jews return. Accordingly, it is not necessary or even possible that the ‘return’ occur before Babylon fell and the seventy years ended. Even with their improper rendering that the seventy years would be accomplished at Babylon, the Jehovah’s Witnesses' Return theory lacks merit. Jeremiah 29:10 supports the Dominant Babylonian Empire theory and disproves the Jehovah’s Witnesses' Return theory.
SBC - it makes it a HELL of a lot easier when you realize it's all made up stuff! You got it exactly. Unfortunately, I have a whole family who believe otherwise, so it still interests me.
J DOUGH - they also don't have a leg to stand on because what's written in the bible means NOTHING without secular history. It is DEAD IN THE WATER.
