Wife is on that yellow brick road to the WT.

by trailerfitter 47 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  nugget

  This is a tough time when the religion has greatest control, your wife is receiving positive affirmation from witnesses that she is doing the right thing and anything negative on your part is seen as opposition from Satan. She is a convert and will be treated well at the moment receiving lots of attention to make her feel special. Once she is baptised this will start to ease off.

  The more you try to drag her away the more attractive the religion becomes to her. You will not prevent her getting baptised if she is determined.

  This is a long game and it may take a long time to get her back there is no quick fix. At this time I would reassure her of your love and acceptance that she is special to you, remind her of all the things that brought you together. Connect with the non cult person buried under the rhetoric. I would take this slowly and carefully this is like brain surgery not amputation.

  Others will give good advice on doctrine and argument and getting her to think, but as her husband you also need her to be aware of how much you love her. When the love bombing stops your attention will still be there to remind her of what you have. She is lucky that you are there to catch her.
• 

  Quandry

  Welcome.

  You've been given good advice not to try to force issues with your wife. I remember how that used to send me into a defensive frenzy! Things are going to get difficult around Christmas time for your family. I hope for your children that you will take over the managing of decorations, etc.

  You must at this time educate yourself about JWs and their history. Please read a lot on this site and on the WT quotes site.You can learn what the WT itself has taught at various times about so many things. Did you know that at one time the WT said that vaccinations were like taking pus into the body? Was that "food at the proper time from God?"

  When you speak with your wife, it must always come across as a question that you are interested in knowing the answer to, not as a challenge. As a husband, you are curious as to this religion that has so captivated your wife, and so you look into it.

  http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/revolutionary-blood-hboc-201-saves-tamara-coakley/story-e6frf7jo-1226050068016

  Here is an interesting article. I don't know how to make it link...sorry. It is about a girl who is a JW and was given cow's blood.

  Your wife is studying; she has learned that blood is sacred and must be poured out on the ground. JWs have scrupulously followed the command not to take blood. However, recently, they have been given "new light." It seems that now, a JW can take fractions, or parts of blood. Which parts are deemed acceptable? Well, the Governing Body (men in New York who are in charge) have decided which ones, of course.

  Now, this article comes out with a JW taking cow's blood. How is it acceptable if blood is to be poured out upon the ground?

  These might be questions you could CAREFULLY ask your wife as she is involved in health care. Obviously, it makes no sense, but have her look into it and explain it to you. Do not speak as she explains it. Just let her continue to speak. Perhaps as she tries to explain it, she will be struck by the cognitive dissonance in her own words.Here is where a difficult part comes in. Don't say anything other than maybe, "Really?" with a quissical look. Then drop the subject until you have another question.

  Let us know how things progress-don't let the Witnesses have your family!
• 

  WTWizard

  This is a no-win situation. The wife will have an "unbelieving mate", which is their term for a mate that doesn't join the cancer. The Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger running the show have tons of articles on how to deal with "unbelieving mates", usually things like leaving the littera-trash where you can view it (do so, but only with the idea that you ARE going to cross-reference it). They are also programmed to go to boasting sessions no matter what, and if you try to stop them, it is "from Satan". Believe me, I have seen many "sisters" that have unbelieving husbands that are opposed, and the "sisters" are still faithful attendees at boasting sessions. Too many of them even pio-sneer.

  Another danger is that they will try and usurp your headship with the children, dragging them to the boasting sessions and hounding them to get baptized before they are 18. You can try and lay down the law that they are not to get baptized before 18 unless they FIRST read Crisis of Conscience through, but then the congregation will support the early baptism. If you don't hound them, the hounders within the congregation will put heavy pressure on those children to get baptized before they can do anything about it. And they will make sure the children get to the Kingdumb Hell, even without your support.

  Now, if it's just your wife joining the cancer, that's one thing. But I do not agree with having them drag the children into the cancer. If this starts to happen, you need to provide alternate activity for the children during the boasting sessions. The wife may try to force the children to the Kingdumb Hell, creating problems (the witlesses do not have that right). But, if the children are old enough to make their own decisions, a nice trip to the amusement park or zoo might be enticing to the children to encourage them to miss the boasting session. Or a water park, a trip to a friend's (please, do not take them to some old person's place where there is absolutely nothing to entertain them and then expect them to sit still listening to adult discussion. Doing this will only bore them, making the boasting sessions seem not so bad after all.), or even a simple walk around the block. Or a video game session--timed around the boasting session so it will encourage the children to miss it. And hopefully, it can entice the wife to start missing them, too.
• 

  Franklin Massey

  WTWizard, as if the inside lingo the Watchtower Society uses isn't hard enough to understand! Would you care to provide our new member with a crash course in your dark twists on JW slang? I'll start you off:

  "boasting sessions" - JW meetings
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  One more humble piece of advice. The idea of planning a few activities on meeting nights to get your wife to get your wife to feel bad about leaving you behind....or perhaps even choose to spend the evening with you instead is good.....but only to a certain extent. Don't over do it. If she senses that you are being especially nice and thoughtful in terms of planning activities with her.....but she makes the connection that it is all for the purpose of keeping her from her meetings.....it will NOT go over well. She may think you are being devious adn cannot be trusted then.

  For example.....buy tickets for a ball game or a concert you'd like to see. Make sure it's on a meeting night. She probably won't say no to that as there is no way she can accuse you of planning the concert to get her away from teh kingdom hall. But if you never go shopping and suddenly want to spend the evening with her at the mall......or you never go bowling but suddenly really want her to join a bowling league with you that happens to bowl on meeting nights....I think she'll wise up to what you are trying to do.
• 

  NewChapter

  I remember a story I either read or heard at a convention. It was about a father that opposed his JW daughter. There was an important meeting--I don't know if it was a special talk or an assembly. Her father forbade her to go. She slipped out the window and went. When the father found out he supposedly did some reading. The girl showed up for the next meeting covered in bruises and smiling and showing them off. She explained her father had beat her for going to the meeting. They asked her why she was smiling then. She said that her father had read some about the religion, and beat her because she snuck out. He then told her, because he was impressed with what he had read, that if she ever missed a meeting he would beat her the same way. ISN'T THAT HEARTWARMING??

  Anyway, a story like this is highly suspicious. However since the r&f are fed these types of stories and they swallow them whole, you can understand we aren't dealing with a normal mind set. Persecution will get you nowhere. I like what Outsmart says. It's easy to leave for meeting when things are unpleasant at home. But make her pay for every meeting with a sacrifice, make her abruptly end a pleasant situation, make her miss out on things, and that will work better. Every meeting will become an actual decision and not just a mindless routine.

  NC
• 

  diamondiiz

  Hello,

  I didn't read previous posts so it might have been said already. Your wife at this point is totally programmed to follow the wts without question so it may be very difficult to pull her away. Do a research on wts history, find a topic you want to bring up and get her to explain it to you, then show her from wts publications what was taught and why and how long did the teaching last.

  For example: What did the founder teach regarding 1914? Get her to think about it and explain it to you. Maybe write it down on paper what exactly JWs were teaching about 1914. How did they come up with 1914? At this point, you should have done your research on the subject and present her the reality that she's not aware of. 99% of witnesses don't know their real history and will deny fact or claim it was old light as if the old witnesses thought the point in question for a short period of time. Today they teach about 1914:

  1. Jesus returned invisibly
  2. Last days started
  3. Gentile times ended
  4. Jesus enthroned as king and began to rule from heaven

  This is most likely what you wife will tell you about what wts taught prior to 1914. Ask her if they realized this after 1914 date or before, to which I would guess she'll happily tell you they proclaimed this message some 40 years prior to 1914. Get her to show you this information. When she does, it obviously will be from the newer publications where they state that Watchtower point to the end of Gentile Times some 40 years prior to 1914. With wts you have to be very careful how their message is stated as many times they don't outright lie but use deception. This may take you and her some time but then ask her to show you the other 3 point (if she brought these out) if they were also proclaimed years before 1914. How did they arrive with 1914??? Get her to explain it to you carefully. Maybe write things down so she sees you're paying attention and get her to check if what you wrote is in agreement with what she said. Then if you did you research you can present it, or(better yet) tell her you would like to do your research on the points she brought out as it sounds interesting. Break up the points she presented and have detailed answers from her publications ready for her to research and answer. For example

  1. Prior to 1914 WTS taught not thought that Jesus returned in 1874 and this teaching was preached until officially changed to 1914 in 1943. (show evidence for your statements by quoting only wts publications)
  2. Last days started in 1799 and this teaching was taught until 1920s.
  3. Gentile Times was the only teaching that was taught prior to 1914 based on wrong date of 606BC as a date for the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon.
  4. Jesus was taught to be enthroned in 1878 and this was taught until the early 1920s.

  Ask her to open her bible and read Deuteronomy 18:20-22 which says:

  “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.

  Ask her if it sounds like JWs were false prophets? They taught this for decade only to change their teaching later to 1914, does that sound like old light or did they revise the teaching to make it look better?

  Stay on one topic and if you don't have the answers tell her you will have to do some research and get back to her because I'm sure that's what she'll do to you as well as she might say she doesn't have all the answers and needs to research.

  At this point, you have to realize she's been told that she will be tested by satan and that family opposition is one example of this because Satan doesn't want her to get baptized so how you present the info is important.

  Another question you can ask her will she be close with her non-JW friends as before or are they bad association and she will she spend more time with her new JW friends. Ask her what happens if she strongly doesn't agree with a teaching after she gets baptized and can she get kicked out if she's outspoken about the disagreement in question. If she gets kicked out, will her JW friends still be her friends.

  Take it slow easy and don't throw too many questions at her all at once. I hope you free her from them and if you need help with specifics ask questions here. www.jwfacts.com is a good site to do your research. Just remember, she will think that she is being tested by Satan when you bring out many points and if she says something to the effect make sure you point out that you're only using watchtower publications.. Good luck
• 

  Hadit

  Welcome to the forum! You are in a very tough spot and I feel for you. Your wife is under heavy mind control and it’s a tough thing to break free from. You’ve been given some great advice so I’ll just add a couple of things.

  Please do some research about the blood doctrine at: http://www.ajwrb.org/ . There is a wealth of information on that site and since you have children it’s imperative that you know the WT tactics and how many times they have changed their stance on blood. It also goes through a detailed account of how they misuse scriptures to fit their twisted doctrine. When I found out the truth about the WT, I immediately went to my family physician and had him put on my son’s file that I will allow blood transfusions and that I must be notified of any emergency situation and not only my husband (who is still a JW). They place value on blood rather than the life it sustains. This is a very dangerous stand and thousands of innocent people have lost their lives at the hands of this WT directive.

  There were many reasons for my waking up but one of them was realizing that I’m following orders from a bunch of strangers! Men who don’t have children yet were telling me how to raise mine. Perhaps you might try to ask your wife about the WT leadership – the governing body. Ask her to tell you about them. What are their names? Their histories? What are they like? How did she feel when she met them? Did she like their personalities? Does she trust them? What is that trust based on? Since she will be getting baptized into “God’s spirit directed organization” she should know something personally about them. After all, she will be following their direction for the rest of her life should she decide to get baptized. This may put some questions in her mind about these men she has never met, yet is willing to obey.

  I wish you all the best in waking her up. It is a journey you are not alone on.

  Hadit
• 

  trailerfitter

  Okay, again much thanks, alot of great and practical advice on here. I must admit this is the first time I have really reached out for help. This is a tough one for me and I have been left struggling with my own feelings about our marriage and future together.

  We had plans. Now they have changed. I am attending college to change my career path. While I have financial support from her I get no moral support or interest from her. It is difficult. She will listen to her JW friends but not spend the time with her husband talkiing about our future.....Since the JW end of the system of things was burned into her mind all has changed.

  I had the visits from an elder and every time I was discussing with then their failures in prophesy they though I was asking questions that they thought were bound to seek for me. I have visits from at least 3 different pairs including the most experienced....I call her the rat catcher...she would block everything fairly determindly what I said and she would answer as if I had just asked a question.

  The same phrase from each pair would be " oh, well I see you have thought about this then". That to me was like getting an automated answer. Perhaps it really is a hive mind? I did go to have a dinner with her friend and to be honest it was good when they were not with their bibles. Only thing spoilt it was the vanity I experienced from one of the girls who was quite insecure about herself and in an instant she said it would be okay when Jehovah sorts it all out. I felt sorry for her and understood that the elder who was their had never been married. at 50 I find that slightly odd but cannot judge anyone on their life.

  Franklin. I understand what you are saying and it is most sensible. If any lessons are to be learned from history, Ghandi, his attitude towards peaceful protest must be of most interest. I will try it and see what happens. Unfortnately when she starts on the bible bashing then I am dragged kicking back on the internet feverously researching facts rather than just accepting the distorted AWAKE version of history. I asked her if she know what the Nicene Creed was,...she didn't know. I bet she is checking all her publications now. This is a very important event in the creation of the bible....( I am alway flying by the seat of my pants when it comes to bible stuff).

  Is it of benefit to my wife to be in the JWs at this point in time? No it is not. Why do the WT give such false hope and turn their followers against the material world? It is itself detrimental. As I said earlier it is causing separation in society and on a personal level if she feel fear because she is obliged to make life determining choices then decisions should be made correctly and not under illusional influence. We were going to buy a house but all this has fallen through now. Why bother?.............

  I origionally agreed for my wife to study the bible in Russian so she may understand it...that was all. Why is it now that she is obliged and feels she needs to be fed often by the WT and the kingdom hall preachers? I watched a DVD they had recorded of a sermon. The guy depressed me as I knew where his talk was leading...Armaggeddon. I find it insulting that thse not following the true religion will be slaughtered. And it is still coming and will be here soon...yeah right!

  The bright thing about this situation is it has brought my step son, who is now 18 yr old, and myself closer together.,...we share the same opinions about her behaviour, her new doctrinal beliefs and the fact he supports evolution. We can discuss our findings rather than opposing each other with retorical religious worn out dogma.....It has also stimulated him to research odd facts about how humans have spread into the world, our differences in languages and cultures past and present.
• 

  the-illuminator81

  TrailerFitter..

  One of the things that can help a JW to get out is to get them to research other destructive mind control cults. That way you can train them to identify these cults based on their behaviour. Once they've trained that ability, you only need to nudge them to use this ability on the watchtower society and with a little bit of luck the blindfold will fall off and they will realize that they are in a cult.

  I think most of the time discussing doctrine or the bible hasn't worked with the people on this forum and for example the stories listed on freeminds.org. But if you do find yourself in a discussion, you can use valuable resources such as jwfacts.com to discuss their doctrine and the skeptic's annotated bible to discuss biblical contradictions. Be warned though, the JW's are trained to win discussions using logical fallacies and discussion techniques such as the red herring, generalizations, false cause, appeal to emotion, ad hominem attacks and straw men attacks. If you want to go into a discussion, be aware of these techniques. Don't let them divert the subject. Read more about logical fallacies here.

  Most of the time though, discussing doctrine only reinforces their beliefs, and makes them stop thinking about the issues you bring up, because you brought them up and you can't be trusted because you are a worldly person so anything you say is probably a lie and false.