Rape can be fornication myth in the 1990s?

by Chemical Emotions 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Pistoff

  @Bonnie_Clyde"

  It explained why many never took it to court because of the way they were mistreated. In one scenario the victim was asked about the length of her skirt, another was asked about her sexual history, another whether she undressed in her bedroom with the curtains open. The paradigm was often, "nice girls don't let themselves get raped."

  That is a criminal lawyer's tactic to confuse a jury, to suggest that rape did NOT take place; it should not be confused with 'expert' testimony about rape.
• 

  NewChapter

  But secular sources don't claim to be spirit directed! If the org is so at the mercy of current societal views, then where does that super hero holy spirit come in?

  In the 80's attitudes had already changed a great deal. I'm sure there were areas that still held to old ideas, particularly rural and outlaying areas. I was in a city and rape was considered violence and was not to be blamed on the woman. The org was in BROOKLYN NEWYORK, they weren't some back woods church. They have no excuse cuz they had the spirit. praisejah.
• 

  Band on the Run

  New Chapter,

  Amen. The hatred of women is very entrenched. My father and others at Bethel during Rutherford believed that women were primarily seductive creatures out to entrap pure, celibrate men. This is so contrary to allmost every culture's belief in history. Hormonal studies show men have the stronger sex drive. Furthermore, men are trained to be the aggressors. Woman can certainly be aggressors but it runs against type.

  The saddest part for me is that JW women did not picket and shut down Bethel until a retraction was made. Imagine being raped and you believe God indicted you b/c of it. You are doubly raped.

  What is so sick about fantasizing that white men used to great power, crapping on women, face the same fears almost every woman faces. Male rape is such a publicly talked about ugly fact.
• 

  DarioKehl

  Oh. Em. GEE.

  I never knew this! How could I have possibly overlooked this, especially since it was written as recently as 2003 when I was in the center of the lion's den? You know what? This pretty much did it for me! I am speechless. And angry. THIS should be on Crazy Rick's protest banners--who cares about blood and 587/607 and "overlapping?"-- this is epic information!

  Does anyone know from actual experience (or through the grapvine) if molested children are also questioned about screaming, or do the elders take a more sensitive approach? I'm furious about the misogyny as it is. But if establishing this "Did you scream?" factor is their primary concern when dealing with a terrified and violated child, I see street riots in Brooklyn.

  pssshhh!!! ..."did you scream"... RIDICULOUS!
• 

  still thinking

  mummatron............. I have experienced something similar, my heart goes out to you.

  I do think society in general had a different attitude about rape not so long ago. Lets face it, it wasn't even recognised that a husband could rape a wife. There was an underlying attitude that women asked for it. (ie the way she dressed etc...).

  The NO means NO thing got a lot of coverage because people were getting off free on the basis that....(she said no, but she didn't mean it)...so unless there was screaming and yelling going on...who believed the woman?

  Marital rape, also known as spousal rape, is non-consensual sex in which the perpetrator is the victim's spouse. As such, it as a form of partner rape, of domestic violence, and of sexual abuse. Once widely condoned or ignored by law, spousal rape is now repudiated by international conventions and increasingly criminalized. Still, in many countries, spousal rape either remains legal, or is illegal but widely tolerated and accepted as a husband's prerogative.

  In 2006, it was estimated that marital rape could be prosecuted in at least 104 countries (in four of these countries, marital rape could be prosecuted only when the spouses were judicially separated). [1] In many countries it is not clear if marital rape may or may not be prosecuted under ordinary rape laws. Several countries in Eastern Europe and Scandinavia made spousal rape illegal before 1970, but other countries in Western Europe and the English-speaking Western World outlawed it much later, mostly in the 1980s and 1990s. Most developing countries outlawed it in the 1990s and 2000s.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape
• 

  still thinking

  Heres an interesting article...up until 2006 it was a mans 'right'

  India abolishes husbands' 'right' to rape wife

  By Justin Huggler in Delhi

  Friday, 27 October 2006

  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-abolishes-husbands-right-to-rape-wife-421829.html
• 

  Band on the Run

  Marital rape is actionable law. Proof is difficult, however. A two-witness rule would not work here. Corroboration must be higher than in a normally consensually setting. I can't recall the first famous case in the US. Was it when the wife amputated his penis?
• 

  LongHairGal

  Band on the Run:

  I remember hearing that idiot theory that rape can be "fornication". I wonder who thought that one up! I consider most religions to be hateful towards women and for this reason alone, I feel the world would be well rid of religion in general.

  I definitely felt the hatred towards women in the JW religion was overboard. I actually felt, personally, that they were out to "abase" me because I have a decent education/career and am well-spoken and most of all, I have self-esteem. When I examined the whole thing and thought long and hard about it, I came to the conclusion that while it is sad, it is not my problem and I would not allow it to get to me. As far as I was concerned, these men should pray to Jehovah for understanding and tolerance.

  What is at the heart of this, I think: pure jealousy. I don't think I am very wrong either. I had some man (non-JW) say to me not so long ago that women today are "lucky" and that most jobs are held by women. I then said to him: "I don't think you would want most of these jobs and you certainly would not tolerate what women put up with". If this is the misconception held by one man, how many others think like him? Other men hate women because they feel aroused by them and then blame the women. And it isn't always because the women are indecently dressed either. These men just have no self-control. Some men are angry that women are in the workforce and should be home baking cookies. Well, too bad. I didn't bring about the Industrial Revolution or the world economic climate either!

  So, in my opinion, the bad treatment towards women in the JW and other religions, in general, is partly a mixture of misplaced anger, jealousy (over fallacies and misconceptions). The other unknown part gets into dark, dangerous territory of men's psyche and who wants to go there?
• 

  Band on the Run

  The traditional answer is that man's inability to give birth troubles them. Women have creative power in a more meaningful way than women. We know the infant that pops out of our body is ours. Men must just assume.

  My father was very upset with women's mere sexuality. This I fail to understand. There is a religious strand that is very at odds with how most men men view the situation. Something spooks men and spooks them deeply. Mutual respect would seem to lead to the most functional relationship and the best sex. Few women are brazen huzzies. Our genitals are different. Besides sexual intercourse and urinary practices, why can't we teach and it just be assumed that we teach and have equal authority with men.

  John Dominic Crossan explained that Rome was full of penis graffiti. Submission was the mind set. There was contempt for any man who pleasured a woman. This is not an accident but I can't comprehend the reasons. We are extremely threatening to men. They have made us the other, if anyone has read Simone De Beauvoir, The Second Sex.

  Successful men would have superb sex and harness all the skills of their spouse for group activities. Christian and Jewish men traditionally run from this. I would think they would embrace it.
• 

  Diest

  I must have been to young to notice this pile of shit. I bet you if some of the GB were raped they would sing a different tune. Maybe ole' Ruthford was when they threw him in prision in 1917? This stuff makes me so mad.