Frederick Franz, "Bible Scholar"

by Quendi 115 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Ten years of French did not make me a French scholar. Ten year of study gave me Restaurant, Chanel, Hermes French. We never studied nuance. This is at a top four university. I've cobbled together approx. two years of Koine Greek. My understanding after two years is this is hard, very hard. I can translate French. I tend to translate the literal words rather than the French expression. French subtitles on films --I am able to translate with great difficulty. It would help me if they slowed down the speakers.

    So my language studies have been exciting but I'm very aware of my limitations. French would be all right after ten years of intensive study if I have the time to take an immersion course.

    Discern Freddie Franz' docrtrines, the main body of his work, and the word is meshunga(Yiddish, I only do casualy).

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    Greg Stafford was a JW. As I understand it, he left the WT organization a few years ago.

    Rolf Furuli has had more than a few encounters of disagreements with the WTS as well.

    Both of these men have had formal training. Just because they are, or were JWs, does that mean they are not capable to offer sound arguments?

    For arguments sake, if a former JW cannot cite educated JWs, why do other educated people get the green light to express whatever they want, and others can quote them without even as much a rebuff? Is that fair?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    For arguments sake, if a former JW cannot cite educated JWs, why do other educated people get the green light to express whatever they want,
    and others can quote them without even as much a rebuff? Is that fair?......Wonderment

    It is an Obvious Conflict of Interest..Obviously Ignored by You..

    And..

    Stafford went back to the WBT$..

    The WBT$ has a Reputation for being Intellectually Dishonest and Decietful..

    And..

    You find 2 JW`s to Support a Dishonest WBT$..

    Which isn`t very Honest of You..

    The WBT$ Fails..Fred Franz Fails..

    You Fail..

    ................... ...OUTLAW

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    I have presented various quotes from scholars, not to show they agree with WT theology (and most don't), but only to show that some scholars recognize the scholarship merit of the NWT. Here is another one by Professor Emeritus of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Benjamin Kedar (highlighting mine) within its context:

    "Since several individuals and institutions have addressed me concerning the following matter, I make this statement; henceforth it will be sent instead of a personal letter to anyone appealing to me to clarify my position.

    1) Several years ago I quoted the so-called New World Translation among several Bible versions in articles that dealt with purely philological [pertaining to the study/science of languages] questions (such as the rendition of the causative hiphil, of the participle qotel). In the course of my comparative studies I found the NWT rather illuminating: it gives evidence of an acute awareness of the structural characteristics of hebrew as well as an honest effort to faithfully render these in the target [English] language. A translation is bound to be a compromise, and as such it's details are open to criticism; this applies to the NWT too. In the portion corresponding to the hebrew Bible, however, I have never come upon an obviously erroneous rendition which would find it's explanation in a dogmatic bias. Repeatedly I have asked the antagonists of the Watchtower-Bible who turned to me for a clarification of my views, to name specific verses for a renewed scrutiny. This was either not done or else the verse submitted (e.g. Genesis 4:13, 6:3, 10:9, 15:5, 18:20 etc.) did not prove the point, namely a tendentious [with a purposed aim/biased] translation.

    2) I beg to make clear that I do not feel any sympathy for any sect and this includes Jehovah's Witnesses. Of course, my mistrust is not directed against the individual member of such sect but rather against the organisation that manipulates him and puts forward its dogmas and rules as the ultimate truth. It should be conceded, however, that the groups and organisations that fiercely oppose the witnesses do not behave any better. On the whole, synagogue, church and mosque also tend to exhibit dogmatic arrogance coupled with intolerance of and enmity with other confessions.

    3) I cannot help expressing my deep conviction that the search for truth will never benefit by linguistic quibble. Whether the author using the word naephaesh denoted 'soul' as opposed to body (Lev 17:11) or meant something else, whether 'almah' means 'virgin' or 'young woman' (Is 7:14) is of great interest to philologists and historians of religion; an argument for or against blood transfusion or the virgin-birth of Jesus respectively, cannot be derived from it.

    4) Obviously, it is man's destiny to make the choice of his way a matter of conscience and to the best of his knowledge. There exists no simple set of rules such as could be learned from the mouth of a guru or the pages of an ancient venerable book. Those who pretend to act according to an infallible guide, more often than not interpret the texts in accordance with their preconceived wishes and notions.

    Benjamin Kedar

    Haifa 27.11.95

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    By Mike Spencer, Spiritwatch Ministries..

    Numerous qualified Greek scholars of international renown have voiced serious reservations about the New World Translation. Dr. Bruce Metzger of Princeton University (arguably the world’s foremost living Greek scholar) calls many of the New World Translation’s renderings “erroneous" (5). Dr. Julius R. Mantey (co-author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament and A Hellenistic Greek Reader) called it “a shocking mistranslation”(6). Dr Robert Countess concluded, in his PhD dissertation on the New World Translation, “it [the New World Translation] must be viewed as a radically biased piece of work. At some points it is actually dishonest" (7).

    Comparison of Scholarly Qualifications Of NWT / NASB Translators

    Although the Jehovah’s Witness leadership desperately wants the names of the New World Translation’s translators to remain unknown (for reasons that shall soon become clear), the names have, in fact, been revealed by former high- ranking members of the Jehovah’s Witness sect (8). Are these men qualified to correct the [allegedly] defective, inconsistent, and unsatisfactory translations produced by other Bible translators? Listed below (in the right-hand column) are the names and academic qualifications of the translators who produced the New World Translation. As a comparison, the names and credentials of the translators of the New American Standard Bible are listed in the left-hand column. We invite the discerning reader to judge for himself which English translation (the NASB or the New World Translation) is more likely to accurately represent the meaning of the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic of the Bible.

    The NASB Translation Committee

    The New American Standard Bible was produced by a diverse team of 40 translators, each with earned doctorates in the field of Biblical languages. Their names are as follows: (9)

    Dr. Peter Ahn

    Dr. Warren Allen

    Dr. Gleason Archer

    Dr. Herman Austel

    Dr. Kenneth Lee Barker

    Dr. Fred Bush

    Dr. David L. Cooper

    Dr. Richard W. Cramer

    Dr. Edward R. Daglish

    Dr. Charles Lee Feinberg

    Dr. Harvey Finley

    Dr. Paul Gray

    Dr. George Giacumakis

    Dr. Edward F. Harrison

    Dr. John Hartley

    Dr. F.B. Huey, Jr.

    Dr. Charles Isbell

    Dr. David W. Kerr

    Dr. William L. Lane

    Dr. Timothy Lin

    Dr. Oscar Lowry

    Dr. Elmer Martens

    Dr. Henry R. Moeller

    Dr. Reuben A. Olsen

    Dr. J. Barton Payne

    Dr. Walter Penner

    Dr. John Rea

    Dr. W.L. Reed

    Dr. Robert N. Schaper

    Dr. Moises Silva

    Dr. Ralph L. Smith

    Dr. Merrill C. Tenney

    Dr Robert L. Thomas

    Dr. George Townsend

    Dr. Bruce Waltke

    Dr. Lowell C. Wendt

    Dr. William C. Williams

    Dr. Herbert M. Wolf

    Dr. Kenneth Wuest

    Dr. Fred Young

    The New World Translation Committee

    The New World Translation committee consisted of four members of the Jehovah’s Witness religious sect. Their names and scholarly qualifications are as follows: (10)

    Nathan Knorr : President of the Watchtower Society (no academic training in any Biblical language)

    Fred Franz : (no academic degree in any Biblical language, though he did study Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati)

    Albert Schroeder : (no academic training in any Biblical language)

    George Gangas: (no academic training in any Biblical language)

    Three Examples Of NWT Alterations Of Biblical Text For Doctrinal Purposes

    It is our belief that the New World Translation is a doctrinally driven translation. By this we mean that the people who produced it were motivated primarily by the desire to render the text of the Bible in such a way as to make it agree with the doctrinal teachings of the Jehovah’s Witness religious sect (11). It is also our belief that the basic principles of Greek grammar, the overwhelming consensus of Greek language scholarship, and the established scholarly principles for evaluating Biblical manuscript evidence have been consistently ignored by the NWT translators whenever the rigorous application of the same would result in a rendering of the Biblical text that would contradict Jehovah’s Witness theology. Consider the following three examples. In each case the New World Translation deviates significantly from not only two major, scholarly, modern translations, but also two of the Watchtower’s own interlinear Greek-English translations of the New Testament text.

    Example #1 : (words in bold type are my emphasis)

    And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for ouradoption as sons, the redemption of our body. (Rom. 8:23, NASB)

    Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. (Rom. 8:23, NIV)

    … the release by ransom of the body of us. (Rom. 8:23, The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures)

    … the redemption of the body of us. (Rom. 8:23, The Emphatic Diaglott)

    … the release from our bodies by ransom. (Rom. 8:23, The New World Translation)

    In the above passage Paul clearly states that he earnestly expected his body to be redeemed. Yet the Jehovah’s Witness translators totally reverse the meaning of the text by deleting the word “of” and inserting the word “from” in its place. Why? Because the official teaching of the JW leadership is that all members of the “faithful slave” class (Paul included) will be restored to life as invisible “spirit beings”. Paul’s physical body (according to JW theology) will never be redeemed (i.e. resurrected) by God. Yet it is clear in Romans 8:23 that the redemption of (and not from) the body is the correct translation. Why is this, you ask?

    First, a Greek noun in the genitive case (such as “the body” in Romans 8:23) following this particular Greek word for redemption (apolutrosin) is invariably the object of the redemption. See, for example, Ephesians 1:14 where Paul uses the identical linguistic construction (apolutrosin followed by a genitive case noun) to refer to “the redemption of the purchased possession” (12). Second, in the immediate context of Romans 8:23 Paul is describing the body’s redemption as an integral part of God’s redemption of the material world from its bondage to the principle of death and decay. Since the world will not be “ransomed away” from its body (i.e. its physicality), there is no reason to suppose that Paul (and other early Christians) expected to be “ransomed away” from their physical bodies either (13). Third, two of the publications printed by the Watchtower Society on its own printing presses (the Emphatic Diaglott and The Kingdom Interlinear Translation) agree with the NASB and the NIV in opposition to the New World Translation! Jesus said, “a house divided against itself cannot stand” (Mk. 3:25). The Jehovah’s Witnesses own testimony about Romans 8:23 is divided against itself. It cannot stand.

    Example #2: (words in bold type are my emphasis)

    And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent. (John 17:3, NASB)

    Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3, NIV)

    But this is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent forth. (John 17:3, The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures)

    And this is the age-lasting life, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. (John 17:3, The Emphatic Diaglott)

    This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. (John 17:3, The New World Translation)

    In John 17:3 the New World Translation reads “this means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” Yet a literal rendering of the Greek in this passage reads “this is eternal life, that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent.” In the Watchtower Society’s rendering, the path to eternal life is through human effort, i.e. a continuous, lifelong process of “taking in knowledge” about God and Christ (using only approved Watchtower study materials, of course!)(14).

    In the correct, literal rendering of this text, however, eternal life is based upon knowing God and Christ, i.e. in an intimate, personal way. It is a sad fact, but a fact nevertheless, that Jehovah’s Witnesses know nothing of the intimate communion with their Creator enjoyed by true Christians. Sadly, Jehovah’s Witnesses are even warned by their leaders not to be too “familiar” with Jehovah in their prayers, lest they incur his displeasure (15)! Interestingly, the introduction to the 1984 study edition of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures states, “paraphrases of the Scriptures are not offered" (16). Yet in this particular case the JW translators clearly violate their own stated policy. They do offer us an ungrammatical and inaccurate paraphrase in John 17:3. Why? Could this “translation” be a clever ploy by JW leaders to scare JWs at the local level into regularly attending Watchtower magazine study sessions at their local Kingdom Halls? You decide.

    Example #3: (words in bold type are my emphasis)

    Knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve (Colossians 3:24, NASB)

    Since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. (Colossians 3:24, NIV)

    having known that you will receive back the gift back in exchange of the inheritance from Lord; be you slaving to the Lord Christ (Colossians 3:24, The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures)

    Knowing that from the Lord you will receive the recompense of the inheritance, for you serve anointed Lord (Colossians 3:24, The Emphatic Diaglott)

    For you know that it is from Jehovah you will receive the due reward of the inheritance, slave for the Master Christ. (Colossians 3:24, New World Translation)

    In over 200 places in the New Testament (the exact number is 231) the New World Translation deletes the word “Lord” (Gk: kurios) or “God” (Gk: theos) from the Biblical text and inserts the proper name “Jehovah” in its place. Why? Because the Jehovah’s Witness sect places great emphasis on the regular and frequent use of God’s proper name. The regular use of the name “Jehovah” is said by Jehovah’s Witnesses to be one of the identifying marks of the true Christian faith. But this extraordinary claim can hardly be supported if no New Testament writer uses the name “Jehovah” even once. The fact of the matter is that no ancient New Testament manuscript or manuscript fragment has ever been found that contains the proper name “Jehovah”.

    Space does not permit a detailed look at the lengthy and involved arguments advanced by the JW leadership to justify its wholesale alteration of the Biblical text. We will content ourselves with a brief outline of their arguments and a brief refutation of the same (17).

    ................... ...OUTLAW

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Wonderment..

    You use Benjamin Kedar who is not a Recognized Scholar in Biblical Languages. .

    To support the WBT$ Bible..

    Your Intellectual Dishonesty is Glaringly Obvious..

    Benjamin Kedar

    "In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translation, I often refer to the English edition as what is known as the New World Translation. In doing so, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this kind of work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific structure of the Hebrew....Every statement of language allows for a certain latitude in interpreting or translating. So the linguistic solution in any given case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain."

    - The Watchtower, 3/1/1991, p. 30

    Benjamin Kedar received his PhD from Yale in 1969, but not in Hebrew. He is professor of Jewish History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem . No doubt, Professor Kedar is knowledgeable about Hebrew, but he is not a recognized scholar in Biblical Languages.

    In a form letter written to those asking for clarification of his apparent endorsement of the NWT, Professor Kedar writes:

    "A translation is bound to be a compromise, and as such it's details are open to criticism; this applies to the NWT too. In the portion corresponding to the Hebrew Bible, however, I have never come upon an obviously erroneous rendition which would find it's explanation in a dogmatic bias."

    It will be noted that Professor Kedar limits his comments to the Hebrew Bible. Few scholars have complained about the Watchtower inserting its dogma into the Hebrew Scriptures. Indeed, since the OT contains far fewer explicit Scriptures teaching the orthodox doctrines that the Watchtower denies - Christ's deity; the existence of the soul; and hellfire - it is not surprising that the NWT Hebrew Scriptures are relatively bias-free.

    Professor Kedar, of course, says nothing of the relative merits of the NWT Christian Greek Scriptures.

    Professor Kedar's preference for the NWT Hebrew Scriptures is not shared by other scholars. H. H. Rowley, an eminent Old Testament scholar from England, wrote regarding the first volume of the New World Translation Of The Hebrew Scriptures:

    "The translation is marked by a wooden literalism which will only exasperate any intelligent reader - if such it finds - and instead of showing reverence for the Bible which the translators profess, it is an insult to the Word of God" (Rowley, H.H., "Jehovah's Witnesses' Translation of the Bible" The Expository Times 67:107, Jan. 1956).

    ................... ...OUTLAW

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    Outlaw:

    Bruce Metzger, Julius Mantey and Robert Countess are recognized authorities in Greek. No one argues that. I don't.

    Nothwithstanding, they too have their own religious agenda, just as the WTS does. For example:

    According to another recognized authority in the Greek, Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D, Dallas Theological Seminary, author of a Greek Grammar used in academia throughout, said the following about scholars who fell for Colwell's flawed rule argumentation on Jn 1:1 (such as those mentioned by the article you brought up): "Almost immediately many scholars (especially of a more conservative stripe) misunderstood Colwell' rule. They saw the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1." "Colwell's rule, as applied to John 1:1, has been played as a trump card by Trinitarians in many christological debates..." (Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, pp 257; 290)

    Wallace is then, disputing the usage of Colwell's rule by scholars. .. such as Metzger, Mantey, and Countess who made that mistake. I am not suggesting that we should not quote them. I have myself. I mention this to point out that they have their own religious beliefs which they intertwine with grammar and their known WT criticisms of the NWT.

    They too have human theological limitations.

  • Billen76
    Billen76

    @Wonderment

    A wrong does not justify another wrong.

    If other translators have or might have changed wording in order to support their own beliefs doctrine, it does not justify others to do the same.

    A language can never be completely translated to another language. Some of the meaning will be lost in translation. This is where translators have to make a decision: Which part of the meaning in a sentence on the original language do they wish to emphasize in their translation to the new language.

    John 1:1c is a perfect good example in this discipline:

    koiné: a en Arche en ho logos, b kai ho logos en pros ton theon, c kai theos en ho logos

    English: a In (the) beginning was the Word, b and the Word was with (before, toward) God, c and God was the Word

    Now neither the NASB nor NWT have John 1:1c absolutely correct. (I actually like the word for word translation above the best)

    It is neither "and the Word was God" nor "and the Word was a god". Or rather, they are both correct. The use of "theos" in John 1:1c is giving the subject (the Word) a qualitative-like identity. Some have attempted to use the phrase: "the Word was as God was".

    Problem with the JW translation (NWT) is the semantical use of the phrase. The sentence does not say, that the Word was a lesser god then THE God, which the use of "the Word was a god" in the NWT would imply, but rather that the Word was as God was.

    The translator have to make a choice within the boundaries of the meaning of the sentences he is to work with, why any translation also always will be a sort of a interpretation of the original writers meaning. The translator must remain true to the meaning of the sentences in the original writings though, why he will not be free to invent a new semantic that crosses the boundaries of the original meaning of the sentences. This is the boundary that TTC of the NWT have crossed way too many times, clearly in order to change the original meaning of the text to suit own doctrine.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Bruce Metzger, Julius Mantey and Robert Countess are recognized authorities in Greek. No one argues that. I don't

    Wallace is then, disputing the usage of Colwell's rule by scholars. .. such as Metzger, Mantey, and Countess who made that mistake. I am not suggesting that we should not quote them. I have myself. I mention this to point out that they have their own religious beliefs which they intertwine with grammar and their known WT criticisms of the NWT.

    ......Wonderment

    .........................................................................................................................................

    That has What do do with Fred Fanzs Lack of Education?

    It still doesn`t make a Poorly Educated Fred Franz a Scholar..

    It doesn`t make The WBT$ Bible any less Poorly Translated..

    And..

    It certainly doesn`t help your Lack of Debating Skills..

    Greg Stafford, Rolf Furuli and Benjamin Kedar aren`t Qualified to have an Opinion..

    2 JW`s and a Professor of Jewish History,not Biblical Languages..

    Yet you use them to support the WBT$ Bible and the Idiots who Translated it..

    Thats just WatchTarded..

    ................... ...OUTLAW

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Our Lenten Bible Study revealed that Jesus would translate to Joshua today. Jesus/Johsua was very popular, not quite as popular as John Doe.

    Other cultures,besides Spanish, use Jesus as a popular name. Well, English does have a lot joshuas. It shows my cultural prejudice b/c the idea of naming someone Jesus sends shivers down my spine. Maybe YHWH, the name that cannot be pronouced b/c it is so sacred. Funny, I can't remember other cultures that use Jesus for a name.

    Is Jesus is Joshua? Why doesnt the Bible translate Joshua? Also, if Jesus is Joshua,why didn't all the NT call him Josh.

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