Another Couple/Few Sincere Questions, for all, if I may:

by AGuest 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you all have peace! In light of some discussions on the board lately, I would like to ask... and hope you can be sincere in your response:

    • Which concerns you MORE: truth... or consensus?
    • Is truth, in your opinion, ONLY that which is known/has been proven (however you deem "proof") thus far?
    • Can something be true, albeit not YET proven?
    • Does truth "change"?

    Please know that I am not looking for right or wrong answers/responses. I am just trying to "see" (so as to try and understand) how others "think." Because, as it may be obvious to some of you, I think a little differently than some.

    Thank you, in advance, and again, peace to you all!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    1. Truth

    2. No . . . there is the proven and the unproven . . . the truth can reside in both.

    3. Yes

    4. No

  • tec
    tec

    May you also have peace!

    1. Truth (If most people agree to a lie, then its just a whole lot of people being wrong)

    2. No

    3. Yes

    4. No... unless the actual laws (physical or spiritual) were to change. (not our understanding of those laws, but the actual laws) Even then, though, something would have been true at one time, then untrue at another time - not making it untrue at the time that it was true. (kay, my sci-fi mind is at work here)

    Tammy

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I gotcha, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... and thank both you and dear Sizmik (peace to you, as well, dear one!)... for your responses. I am eager to see what else comes up!

    Peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    If I think something is true and yet cannot convince anyone else of it then I am wrong. Consenus of truth would be my primary concern so I would lead towards consensus.

    For something to be called truth it must be unfalsifiable.

    Something can be true, yet unproven, only in scientific theory.

    Truth cannot change, only our proprietary understanding of it can.

    -Sab

  • moshe
    moshe

    Consensus is often the way we determine what truth is- the right answer is obvious to everyone on the outside.

    -I hope this JW doesn't phone a friend in Bethel for help on this one.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    • Which concerns you MORE: truth... or consensus?

    Your average atheist in the United States definitely doesn't care about consensus. Consensus seems to be "Believing, yet living as if God doesn't exist."
    Here's a quote I love about the subject:

    “Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter what it contradicts.” -Charles T. Russell
    Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence, pp. 8-9 July 1879

    • Is truth, in your opinion, ONLY that which is known/has been proven (however you deem "proof") thus far?

    No, there are ultimate truths which are beyond current knowledge and many not-so-ultimate ones. These are the truths that would be objective and not subjective, just the same, having nothing to do with opinions or perspectives.

    • Can something be true, albeit not YET proven?

    See above answer.

    • Does truth "change"?

    Objective truth does not change. The problem is that what is thought of as "truth" changes. People will insist on something being the truth when it is not. People truthfully stated that the earth was flat. They "stated" truthfully, but their "truth" was not at all true. Almost all actual truths are subjected to our opinions or perspectives and makes it difficult to actually get to the answers. So the perspective of the believer in the flat earth was limited.

    Whether there is a God or not, there is an answer. But then who is defining "God" ? Some science fiction suggests that life can evolve beyond physical form to pure energy. That energy could manipulate matter and be defined as "God" by many.

    It is probably impossible to establish a single objective ultimate truth without argument from various perspectives. Even a statement like "Time exists" could be questioned.

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    Some science fiction suggests that life can evolve beyond physical form to pure energy. That energy could manipulate matter and be defined as "God" by many.

    Interesting you should say that OTWO . . . my search into nuclear physics showed that matter and energy is yet to be proven as two different things.

    But now I'm hijacking . . . so I'll shut up

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    If I think something is true and yet cannot convince anyone else of it then I am wrong.

    What if what you think is true is that you shouldn't commit genocide, dear Sab (peace to you!). Would you still believe yourself wrong, even if no one else agreed?

    Consenus of truth would be my primary concern so I would lead towards consensus.

    I would like to say I understand, but I truly don't. BUT... again, this wasn't about right or wrong, but me trying to understand YOU. So, thank you for your candor.

    For something to be called truth it must be unfalsifiable.

    Okay, I can agree with that. But WHEN? I mean, based on what you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong)... the earth may indeed revolve around the sun, but if we don't have the means to prove it's not FLAT... then it IS flat. Right? Or am I misunderstanding you?

    Something can be true, yet unproven, only in scientific theory.

    True, yet unproven... BUT only in scientific theory? Or true, yet unproven only in scientific theory? Not sure what you mean, even with your punctuation. Can you clarify, please? Thank you!

    Truth cannot change, only our proprietary understanding of it can.

    Again, I agree. I mean, if you're saying that it is truth... even if we don't understand it (yet).

    Again, thank you... and peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Which concerns you MORE: truth... or consensus?

    I'm concerned with what is USEFUL. How can we benefit

    human beings alive today and those who will be born? <------ Secular Humanism

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