On becoming atheist - the tug of war (page 3)

sabastious

SBC, sorry about your mother. I have not been stung by death yet. I am awaiting the trial by fire.

-Sab

Thank you unshackled, LWT and SBC for the affirmation. I am very sorry about your mom, SBC. I somehow missed the news. I no doubt felt much as you do when mine died, now going on 7 years, even though she was older than yours by 14 years. My dad died 3 years ago. I made my transition between the deaths of my parents. My mother was paralysed by ALS and suffering horribly. I prayed for her to die and that morning she did. Still hurt a lot. By the time my dad passed I'd adopted a different perspective on death and it was easier. His eyes were locked on mine when he went. Still hard as hell, but easier. It's ok. It's just the way it is.

tec

But what I might appreciate understanding is how one can simulaneously hold out a hope for eternal life and say he has truly confronted the notion of oblivion? In order to confront it, you have to believe it.

God or no God, I am of the belief that some face oblivion (not hellfire). I could be included in that. So I have had to face it. Whatever happenes after, happens. All I need to concern myself (at this point in my understanding, anyway) is what I should be doing NOW, to know and follow Christ NOW.

Further life would be a gift, but I worry less about consequences (good or bad), than I worry about what I should be doing here and now.

Peace,

Tammy

thetrueone

It appears to me in my own personal opinion that atheism associates itself with the natural reality of the world and life we live,

which includes both the good and the bad, to understand this life void of super natural intervention, mankind has progressed to

making the living experience better for all. Depending on or deriving direction on gods (all) in the super natural world has been nothing

but oppressive regression to the understanding of this world to humanity's sole detriment.

sabastious

Still hard as hell, but easier. It's ok. It's just the way it is.

What helps me with the concept of death is that I remind myself that everything has an end, including planets, stars and suns. Within our reality anything that is built up will eventually be torn down. No one can argue this without the use of some sort of faith that requires hypotheticals while ignoring reality past and present.

I think many forget that people can die well. We have all either seen it happen or have heard of it. It should be of paramount concern to us, imo, but people get to concerned with the great blue yonder than what they are actually doing right now.

-Sab

OnTheWayOut

The truth is far, far more fascinating and enthralling than any of those ancient fables.

Great place to get to. Thanks for sharing.

Nickolas

Peace back, Tammy.

There is a difference between knowing something and understanding it. Knowing something to be true but forcing yourself to think it is not true (or vice versa) is cognitive dissonance. I propose the root of cognitive dissonance is fear. Fear is what keeps Jehovah's Witnesses in line and, I propose, keeps people from believing what historical and scientific evidence presents to be accurate truth. If you haven't looked oblivion in the face, you haven't confronted it and you cannot say you have no fear of what you have not confronted. One must know fear in order to be brave. Bravery on the battlefield is manifest only when the enemy is enjoined. It is otherwise bravado.

SweetBabyCheezits

Still hard as hell, but easier. It's ok. It's just the way it is.

That's how I see it at the moment with my mom.

Of course, if something happened to one of my kids I can't imagine saying that, as the perception of injustice would be exponentially greater.

tec

That being said, I hope my answer 'reads' respectfully, because that is my intent.

Of course!

Evolution is science. It's like chemistry. I was not born understanding what H 2 O means either.

Yes. I think my point is that we aren't born knowing anything - that we can embrace or deny anything.

I disagree. First off, is 'selfless' a good thing to be? As a JW, I was taught to be selfless, and it gave me low self-esteem. Now, I'm not trying to twist words, but here's something I learned in therapy. We need to be 'selfish' to take care of ourselves. Being 'self-absorbed', however, is a whole other thing, and means caring about one's self to the exclusion of the good of others. If we don't take care of ourselves first (selfish), how can we help others?

Replace my selfish, with self-abosrbed then. Babies don't have the capacity to even be aware of the needs of others around them, much less care about those needs. We learn that as we become aware of them.

And I have been a humanist since I was a child -- once I cast off the guilt and perfectionism taught by the principle of 'original sin',,, I was free to love and care for all people (myself first), and all living things. That feels much more natural to me.

As a child, yes. I wasn't brought up religiously, so I can't say what I might have felt if I had been. I was taught about God being our creator and Christ being His Son - but that is pretty much it. I daresay I asked the questions first, though. I could ask my mother, but I don't think she would remember. My uncle remembers describing all the science around the questions that I asked though. He is an atheist. But yet, I myself, have always believed, as far as I can remember. My brother is an atheist also, with the same upbringing as me. I find those things interesting.

Peace,

Tammy

PSacramento

I was close to being an athiest at one point.

Why?

Anger at a supposed God that ALLOWS for so much hatred and violence on the innocents in this world.

Evil and suffering were what drove me to almost become an atheist, although it cna be argued that a a certain point I was because I didn't believe in God.

The world and what I had seen of it scarred me deeply, far more than I had even realized till that day I undestood how much anger I had at God.

Atheisim was an almost "pleasant" alternative to God, to a God the demanded so much and gave so little.

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

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