That “C” word – CULT

by Lady Lee 66 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Paralipomenon

  I see no contradiction. Military institutions have Chaplains that give mass, the catholic church covered up child abuse by ministers. Should we label the Catholic church as a cult?

  Some ex-witnesses have had more severe experiences than others, but the average story is that of annoyance that they believed it for so long and wasted their time.

  Part of my own exit was researching cult recovery groups and participating in them. It's hard to bitch and moan about going out in service on saturday when you hear stories of the leaders stealing a man's wife and daughter for their personal harem, or being physically beaten for questioning the leader or members who lost their homes, savings, car but being thankful that they are now out.

  People joke here about passing out the Koolaid, but how many really think that if the GB actually got each congregation to pass out laced Koolaid as their solution to survive Armagedon, that the majority would actually take it? Brooklyn doesn't have THAT much control over witnesses lives. Hell, many congregation can barely get enough donations to keep their congregations running on a monthly basis. It's an extremely selfish religion.

  A case in point for how it get blurred is a comment from your original post:

  That people are so afraid of labelling the Watchtower Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses as a cult.

  vs.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are victims of a cult.

  All the malice you draw up toward the Witnesses, there is no disclaimer, there is no mention of victims, there is no mention of innocents, just a statement that they are a cult and all the negative imagery from cults that are much worse is painted over the whole membership.

  That's why I don't label them, or any group, with a blanket negative term. I prefer to view them as misguided and potential ex-witnesses.
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  Lady Lee

  Perhaps I should have said

  That people are so afraid of labelling the Watchtower Society and the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses as a cult. Most people can tell by the context when someone is talking abotu the individuals vs the religion without my havign to add Christian Congregation

  I doubt they would pass out the koolaid. What they do is even worse.

  • They get people to agree to let their children die for want of a blood transfusion
  • They got people to refuse to acceot organ doinations that might have saved them and then changed their minds and said they could have taken it after all but now th eperson was dead.
  • They rip families apart treating those who choose to leave as if they are dead to them.
  • They utter threats of being disfellowshipped if they speak about their experience with sexual abuse and name the perpetrators of this hideaou crime against children (now that is one the Catholic Church didn't do).
  • They got people to stop praying at meetings because the WTS wanted to own property. They got people to die because they were told to refuse to buy a 25 cent ID card.
  • They got people to sell their homes, quit their jobs and travel to other places int eh country or to oher countries to "serve where the need was greater". Meanwhile they were sending people from those distant places back to the congregations where others just left.
  • They get members of th econgregation to send their money to headquarters for the building of new halls. But they have to borrow money from the WTS when they build their hall and then when it is built they find out that if the cong is disbanded or joins with another cong that they don't own the hall they just paid for twice.
  • They regulate what Witnesses wear, who they talk to, what kinds of jobs they can or can't hold, who they associate with.
  • They rob them of almost all their times by filling it with study and meetings and service and study - never ending studying and conventions and more boring recycled talks than they can handle There is a difference between the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses and the individual person. The WTS likes to play around with names in attempts to cover their a$$ when it comes to money
  • They get people to delieberately set themselves up tpo be arrested or beaten just so they can then run around claiming persecution
  • they get people to blindly accpet all chance to their beliefs even when the are absurd - new generation, armageddon will come in 1875... no 1914.. no 1919 . . .no soirry 1925 .. . . wait a minute we meant 1975. Oh no we never said that. It was just a few people thinking that.
  • get people to throw away older publications so they can't check to see what the oroginals really said and realize how they have been lied to
  • If you scream then it is rape.. . um, no it isn't. . . yes it is. . . no it isn't. . .

  I could go on and on and on but I'm sure you get the drift of it. Witnesses have to accept every one of these changes without question. The tacking into the wind just doesn't cut it for most of the changes. When a ship tacks intot he wind it is still going towards the goal. It doesn't reverse itself and go back to where they started.
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  Paralipomenon

  Then wouldn't you agree that the Catholic Church is a far more dangerous cult than the Witnesses?

  The crusades where they killed entire villages for not believing

  They tortured and killed tens of thousands for not believing

  The ban on condoms that caused the spread of AIDs in Africa

  Delivering sermons in latin so that the common people couldn't understand

  Banning translation of the bible into english so people couldn't read it for themselves

  Pedophiles were covered up and moved to other congregations

  Girls who got pregnant out of wedlock were kicked out of their homes and excommunicated

  Shaming members with the passing of a collection plate to intimidate them into paying

  Moral support of Hitler and the Nazi party

  Reverance to a man, the Pope who lives in complete luxury

  Confessing even minor sins to the local priest

  I could go on and on as well, yet people are afraid to label the Catholic Church as a cult. Why do you think that is? If being evil and oppressive is the criteria for a cult, the Catholic church is a much larger target.

  I'd actually be hard pressed to find a single religion, large or small that doesn't fit the B.I.T.E model in some form. At some point the word 'cult' just becomes a slur.
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  Lady Lee

  Why do these types of questions always wind up being diverted to how other religions treat people? If I wanted to debate the Catholic Church I would go to therir forum.

  I am interested in how the WTS and its leaders treat their members. Period. Not any other church. If you want to debate the Ctholci church well that isn't the topic here.

  If you don't want to lable it as a cult then you have that right. So far I don't see too many people cheering you on.
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  Mad Sweeney

  People joke here about passing out the Koolaid, but how many really think that if the GB actually got each congregation to pass out laced Koolaid as their solution to survive Armagedon, that the majority would actually take it?

  Why would "the majority" have to actually take it for you to consider it a dangerous cult? If the GB got each congregation to pass out laced Koolaid as their solution to survive Armageddon and only 49% of JWs actually took it, would you still say they're not a cult?

  An organization being a cult has nothing to do with how successful they are at implementing their cult mind control. It is all about the leaders' implementation of cult mind control itself. Running a cult isn't foolproof. You never get 100% unquestioned obedience. That doesn't mean it isn't a cult.

  And use of the word benign and Jehovah's Witnesses in the same post? Seriously? I think Lady Lee already put that argument to rest.

  Granted, the formal definition of the word is not the same as the definition used in modern parlance. Too bad. That's just how language works sometimes.

  Many things are open to debate and I try to see other perspectives. Not on this. It's a cult. Period. And the members are victims, not cultists. The cultists are the leaders who should know better and who implement the oppressive, abusive, and coercive control mechanisms.
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  OUTLAW

  Then wouldn't you agree that the Catholic Church is a far more dangerous cult than the Witnesses?..

  That is a typical WatchTarded JW response..Bring up a JW Problem..And..

  They will change the Subject to Catholics..

  In WatchTower World..

  "Catholics are why Jehovah`s Witness`s don`t really have any problems"..

  ................. ...OUTLAW
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  Hadit

  Many would consider ALL religions cults. Cult or not - the point was we need to identify what we have gone through so that we don't perpetuate the cycle. We can free ourselves ONLY if we see that we have been abused, manipulated or controlled.

  Hadit
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  Paralipomenon

  Interesting. You provided criteria that you felt made Witnesses a cult. My point was, the same criteria, applied to every other religion proves the same point.

  Maybe I erred by selecting a specific example but I think the argument is valid.

  For outlaw, the watchtower also likes to attack the source rather than the argument.

  I'll take the "Catholic" aspect out and repeat my summary of the example:

  I'd actually be hard pressed to find a single religion, large or small that doesn't fit the B.I.T.E model in some form.
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  OUTLAW

  For outlaw, the watchtower also likes to attack the source rather than the argument.

  Once again you Change the Subject..

  The Topic is about JW`s..

  Not other Religions..Not a really good Cookie Recipe..

  JW`s..The Topic is about JW`s..

  Try to Concentrate..

  ................. ...OUTLAW
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  Lady Lee

  One more time

  I'm not talking about what other religions do or don't do.

  The issue is that the leaders of all Jehovah's Witnesses consistently manipulate, control and abuse their members. You can look anywhere and see that sometimes some aspects of abuse are used by everybody. But when you look at almost every accepted definition of cultic control the WTS consistently these tactics on their members.

  By recognizing that we can deal with the forms of abuse they ised on us.