Do active JW's understand the "new light" on the feet toes of the staue in Daniel?

by donny 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  donny

  Can someone enlighten me as to what is the new understanding vs the old one regarding the vision of the statue was given by God to King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in a dream? I have asked two of the JW's who work with me and neither of them were able to explain it to me. The best I got was "Well the feet and clay are not just the U.S. and Great Britain, they are I think most of the big powers as a whole or something like that."

  "Something like that?" This guy is a pretty dedicated witness and just got back from his convention and he admits that it was not all that clear although he thinks he got the basics. So what is this "new light" pray tell?
• 

  wasblind

  Don't know, I suspect the next new pic of the statue will include china

  they will claim that as new light even thought the back of the 2011 DC invite

  claims they had the answers for 2500 years

  Quote: "What is God's Kingdom? When will it come, and with what effect???? The answers to these questions are contained in the fulfilment of a prophetic dream that was recorded by the prophet Daniel over 2500 years ago."
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  keyser soze

  It's just been revealed that the statue has corns. Stay tuned for the WT's new light on the subject.
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  wasblind

  In the pay attention to Daniel's prophecy book on page 56

  the US and great britain were still part of the iron leg no clay at all
• 

  discreetslave

  It's amazing how little the witnesses understand regarding their own techings on prophecy. The new light is recycled old light, they've been back & forth on toes over the years . They admitted they put emphasis on the toes when the account makes no issue of the toes.So they are back to a more polished teaching from 78-85. The picture in the Daniel book is old light.

  The current understanding is the legs are Rome. The feet of iron and clay represent the Anglo-American world power, being Britain and the United States. The clay represents divisive elements within the realm of influence of this Anglo-American world power. These elements undermine the ability of this world power to act.

  The light flickers more & more as the day draws near. Like an old flourescent bulb that's been turned on & off too many times.
• 

  blondie

  The toes were never just the US and GB per the WTS, but the WTS did/does teach that the Anglo-American World Power is represented by the 2-headed wild beast, the 7th head of the wild beast (and the prophet in Revelation).

  (Revelation 13:11-14) 11 And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. 13 And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind. 14 And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived.

  *** it-1 pp. 270-271 Beasts, Symbolic ***It may be recalled that the two-horned ram of Daniel chapter 8 represented a dual power, Medo-Persia. Of course, that power had long since disappeared by the apostle John’s day, and his vision was of things yet future. (Re 1:1) Other dual powers have existed since John’s day, but among these the historical association of Britain and the United States is particularly notable and of long duration. The other notable characteristic of the two-horned beast, its speaking like a dragon, recalls the "mouth speaking grandiose things" on the outstanding horn of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 (vss 8, 20-26); while its ‘misleading’ earth’s inhabitants compares with the deception practiced by the ‘fierce king’ described at Daniel 8:23-25.—Re 13:11, 14.

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  The toes (10) represented the earthly completeness of the nations on earth at the time of the end.

  *** w86 11/15 p. 6 A Prophetic Giant—What Will Its Fall Mean? ***Over the centuries the British power was transformed into a vast empire that Daniel Webster, a famous 19th-century American politician, described as "a power to which, for purposes of foreign conquest and subjugation, Rome in the height of her glory is not to be compared,—a power which has dotted over the surface of the whole globe with her possessions and military posts." Soon the British Empire was closely linked in political and military affairs with its former colonies of North America. Thus the seventh king of Revelation 17:10 appeared, the Anglo-American Dual World Power.

  According to what was said about the dream image, "the offspring of mankind," or the common people, would play a greater role in government at the time of this last "king." (Daniel 2:42, 43) Modern history confirms that this has indeed happened, with democracies or ‘people’s governments’ replacing many kings, queens, or other autocratic powers. Among the governments of today, represented by the ten toes of the image, some are ironlike, that is, authoritarian or tyrannical. But others, being socialistic or democratic rulerships, are more pliable, like clay.

  *** it-1 p. 1187 Image *** The mixture of iron and clay in the toes of the great image graphically illustrates the condition due to be manifest in the final expression of political world domination. Clay is elsewhere used metaphorically in the Scriptures to stand for fleshly men, made of the dust of the earth. (Job 10:9; Isa 29:16; Ro 9:20, 21) Daniel’s interpretation thus appears to equate the clay with "the offspring of mankind," the mixing in of which produces fragility in that which is symbolized by the image’s ten toes. This points to a weakening and a lack of cohesion in the ironlike strength of the final form of world domination by earthly kingdoms. (Da 2:41-43) The common man would wield greater influence in affairs of government. "Ten" being used consistently in the Bible to express completeness (see NUMBER, NUMERAL), the ten toesapparentlyrepresent the entire global system of rulership at the time when God’s Kingdom is established and takes action against the worldly powers.—Compare Re 17:12-14.

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  So what is the new teaching and was it in a publication and/or from the platform?
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  blondie

  Can't see my response at all, no box....what happened?
• 

  Ding

  Evidently, today's GB doesn't understand either, not having Freddy around any more to tell them...
• 

  blondie

  DUPLICATE (to see if it shows up)

  The toes were never just the US and GB per the WTS, but the WTS did/does teach that the Anglo-American World Power is represented by the 2-headed wild beast, the 7th head of the wild beast (and the prophet in Revelation).

  (Revelation 13:11-14) 11 And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. 13 And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind. 14 And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived.

  *** it-1 pp. 270-271 Beasts, Symbolic ***It may be recalled that the two-horned ram of Daniel chapter 8 represented a dual power, Medo-Persia. Of course, that power had long since disappeared by the apostle John’s day, and his vision was of things yet future. (Re 1:1) Other dual powers have existed since John’s day, but among these the historical association of Britain and the United States is particularly notable and of long duration. The other notable characteristic of the two-horned beast, its speaking like a dragon, recalls the "mouth speaking grandiose things" on the outstanding horn of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 (vss 8, 20-26); while its ‘misleading’ earth’s inhabitants compares with the deception practiced by the ‘fierce king’ described at Daniel 8:23-25.—Re 13:11, 14.

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  The toes (10) represented the earthly completeness of the nations on earth at the time of the end.

  *** w86 11/15 p. 6 A Prophetic Giant—What Will Its Fall Mean? ***Over the centuries the British power was transformed into a vast empire that Daniel Webster, a famous 19th-century American politician, described as "a power to which, for purposes of foreign conquest and subjugation, Rome in the height of her glory is not to be compared,—a power which has dotted over the surface of the whole globe with her possessions and military posts." Soon the British Empire was closely linked in political and military affairs with its former colonies of North America. Thus the seventh king of Revelation 17:10 appeared, the Anglo-American Dual World Power.

  According to what was said about the dream image, "the offspring of mankind," or the common people, would play a greater role in government at the time of this last "king." (Daniel 2:42, 43) Modern history confirms that this has indeed happened, with democracies or ‘people’s governments’ replacing many kings, queens, or other autocratic powers. Among the governments of today, represented by the ten toes of the image, some are ironlike, that is, authoritarian or tyrannical. But others, being socialistic or democratic rulerships, are more pliable, like clay.

  *** it-1 p. 1187 Image *** The mixture of iron and clay in the toes of the great image graphically illustrates the condition due to be manifest in the final expression of political world domination. Clay is elsewhere used metaphorically in the Scriptures to stand for fleshly men, made of the dust of the earth. (Job 10:9; Isa 29:16; Ro 9:20, 21) Daniel’s interpretation thus appears to equate the clay with "the offspring of mankind," the mixing in of which produces fragility in that which is symbolized by the image’s ten toes. This points to a weakening and a lack of cohesion in the ironlike strength of the final form of world domination by earthly kingdoms. (Da 2:41-43) The common man would wield greater influence in affairs of government. "Ten" being used consistently in the Bible to express completeness (see NUMBER, NUMERAL), the ten toesapparentlyrepresent the entire global system of rulership at the time when God’s Kingdom is established and takes action against the worldly powers.—Compare Re 17:12-14.

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  So what is the new teaching and was it in a publication and/or from the platform?
• 

  stillstuckcruz

  Personally I tried understanding it as the brother at the DC explained. But my mind kept trailing off. But It seems that more people on this forum know exactly what is implied and meant by the "new light" than most actual JW's do.