by TimothyT 48 Replies latest watchtower bible
How much genuine discussion is there at a KH on any subject?
Review all the good questions and comments Blondie makes on her threads, then try adding any of her points to the "discussions" at the hall.
The temperature in the room will drop dramatically.
Yea it was lovely, but the only reason they were so welcoming and nice is because we had to lie and pretend to just be friends.
Exactly. Well said. Tim's home congregation would've shunned him big time if he'd gone there. Even this new congregation will turn on you both once they know Tim is now disfellowshipped and you lied to them.
It can take a while to fully cut the organization's apron strings, so go gentle.
Your observation that the Watchtower study is stimulating and they encourage study of the Bible has me worried about you. I guess you were so blown away by how nice this new congregation was that you may not have been fully in your logical mind during the meeting. Love bombing can do strange things to people's ability to reason.
Get yourselves down to the library and get yourselves some books that teach critical thinking skills.
You are in a great position to do this as with some of them you really need at least two people so that you can bounce ideas off each other, spot each other's mistakes, etc..
THEN ..... AFTER you have aquired these new skills ........... look at religion again.
Cheers
Chris
Do any of you still feel this? Do you still desire the spiritual push or the desire to just have nice friends?
I feel a need to push myself to be the best I can be, to expose myself to new, stimulating ideas and to have interesting converstations with nice people.
There are 1000+ better ways I can achieve those objectives vs. involving myself with a lying, hateful mind control cult full of small people who tried to kill me.
The people are so nice, so genuine, so kind, but unfortunately, if they were to learn who we truly are, we'd be shunned instantly
Of course they will be nice and friendly, its mostly false smiles though anyway.
And you said it mate.... they would shun you like you were the devil himself if they knew who you two were.
The really sad thing about all of this is, you are only being yourself. And for that...to them...because of what you are... is vile, wrong, disgusting, perverse, etc etc etc.
As someone has already rightly said, you can join a nice bible study class somewhere, where everyone is of different opinions, and your not going to get slated for disagreeing with someone, or even giving your own take on something!!!!
All the best bud
DM6
In other news, my Sunday mornings from now on will be used to try out different churches. HEHE!!! Im gonna get a little clipboard and make notes on my faves and mark them out of 10! HAHA!!! I hope that i can find somewhere that not only accepts and welcomes us for who we are, but also can provide some sort of stimulating spiritual discussion, etc.
Hey, Guys!
Here's an url for the United Unitarian Church in Britain. They are nonjudgemental, and anyone can attend,,, from Catholics to Baptists to atheists even! They don't care if you're gay or straight, African or American, Chinese, etc. etc.
http://www.unitarian.org.uk/index.shtml
I have had experience with the UU church in my city, and it was a positive one. They are truly ecumenical, and community-oriented (big time!).
Good luck on your journey of discovery,,,
take care,
tal
Awwwwww Timmy! You sweet, sweet man. Big hugs from me brother...
This is my first post on this forum (or any exJW forum),
I've been reading a lot of the posts here for the last couple of days and just had to comment on yours.
There is definitely a nice feeling to going to a hall. I left (for the final time) in 2004 and since then I went to
every memorial and got roped into going to one day of one convention.
When I walked into the convention there WAS a lovely feeling that I felt was a spiritual kind of thing.
But since then, I've found that this feeling is always there when a group of people all believe essentially the same thing as each other
and have gratitude for what they're learning.
The fact that you went to this meeting undercover just before getting DF'ed sounds a little bit like getting one last fix
of that nice feeling - totally understandable. After years of being ExJW it seems a lot like there are quite a few stages that you go through.
I was convinced when I first left that I was the problem, and the society was right. Then that all religions are right in their own way, and armageddon was still coming etc.
Now I feel like everyones just trying their best - so many good people on the planet you know.
(As for the society, the more I learn the more I can't quite figure out where they're coming from)
So I went to a lot of different churches and buddhist temples etc. and chatted to new friends that I met, Hindus, Muslims etc.
Was a brilliant thing to do. I think you're definitely on the right track there. Check them all out and find a spiritual community (religious or not)
that loves you just as you are.
Ryan
I lived in Greenwich Village, the East Coast center of gay pride, and the East Village for decades. My apartment building was half gay men. Most were very creative types, doing film, fashion, design, art, music. Every church not only had gay members but members who were openly affectionate with each other during services. Not touchy feely but the same as heterosexual couples.
One church was more Southern and not quite as welcoming. My neighbor introduced me to his lover. We talked for hours about religion. I would attend services with them at the not so welcoming but still welcoming church. Growing up, I was taught that f......were worse than animals. The Stonewall riots when the police raided a gay bath and thousands of gay men fought back started the movement. Reminders of the riot were plastered all over the Village. During Easter service, they warmly embraced each other and kissed tastefully in full view of this more conservative church. I wept.
Reading books or watching TV did not change my attitude towards gays. Knowing them and interacting with them changed me. My mom and I would wear large crosses and took Bibles to St. Patricks during the gay pride parade to protest the protesters. If you've only known the Witnesses, it is difficult to reassure you how the world is different in good ways. Do it for yourself and your lover. It is more easily done in large cities but you can find a great place just about anywhere. The Deep South included. Again, the gay community is your best resource.
Do any of you still feel this? Do you still desire the spiritual push or the desire to just have nice friends?
Definitey felt the spiritual push, even when I was going to the meetings. Sure, I got that warm fuzzy feeling of 'fellowship' sometimes, but still - something wasn't quite right.
Now that I've explored a lot of different philosophies and religions, I've found that the JW religion keeps one in an underdeveloped, ever-nascent form of spirituality. It's very tied to the material - works, beauracratic score-keeping (turning in time), over-stressed hiearchy. Nothing that I would now find 'spiritual'.
I know the feeling that they're 'nice people'. One thing I always admired while growing up in the US south is how the Witnesses always crossed racial barriers. And since I was never baptized, I am on good terms with a few of them and consider them good people. But that doesn't ever make me rationalize the controlling practices and lack of freedom in the religion.
So, Tim, you have to work it out man. The thing about spirituality is that I find it has mostly a psychological basis. Very rational people tend to reject it altogether and become atheists/agnostics. Very introverted people may be drawn to mysticism and the eastern traditions. Extraverts tend to like the fellowship of a church (though they can find it in other places). In the end you have to find what's right for you. Best wishes!
