Past Organized Attempts to Level the Playing Field with WTBTS

by Band on the Run 24 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Band on the Run

  They can be successfully sued for just about nothing. Everything people most complain about is protected by the First Amendment. My idea is not to get hung up on the Supreme Court as an agent for social change. People tend to get angry with me when I explain about First Amendment protections. The same points could be raised in a nonreligious setting. Cult behavior could be an educational campaign. Now only the Internet is stopping them.

  The First Amendment law is strong and I support it. There is more than one way to skin a cat, however. When I watch TV or read, if someone is histrionic and argues about religious dogma, I lose interest. Some people raise issues that affect society as a whole. Most of the ugly Witness stuff is also done by political cults, such as Maoists. They have no religion. Focusing on the conduct might raise public awareness.

  Even now, if I were researching the Witnesses (and knew nothing about them, this site would repel me b/c it is too antiWitness. A PBS document or a magazine article of general interest not a Bible magazine would interest me.

  There is always more than one approach. Always. Because I practice law, I often see how people equate law and justice, which should be the case. Reality is different. The First Amendment is a super strong bar. Rather than waste time writing how horrible the justices are (which they are not), find a way where they are not relevant. I'm thinking of ways of not going through, but around, to reach the same result.

  Maximize whatever can be achieved with the First Amendment in play. Lay people tend to think law suits are the way to perfection. They are not. Fundraising and lobbying also go far.

  I was interested in people's thoughts and reasonings. Frankly, I did not write this thread for someone I know nothing about to tell me my idea is trash.
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  Band on the Run

  Publicity alone could work. There is some wiggle room with legislation. Some. Neutral laws and regulations are not barred by the First Amendment.
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  Nickolas

  What are the limitations to publicity BotR? What I mean is, if you rent billboard space on the Interstate singling out the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society for whatever perceived wrong (the pedophile scandal or shunning, for example) are you exposing yourself to civil litigation?
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  Band on the Run

  I've read discussions of this issues. It needs to be researched. I don't see any liability in general. People do horrid things to the Roman Catholic Church off-Broaday, museum shows, etc. Attacking them is not the same as attacking an individual. Also, if the WTS has free speech rights, we do, too. I don't want to say definitively until every possible lead has been researched.

  I thought of ads through a no cult org. might be more credible. Basically, those European suits allege certain patterns of conduct. A lawsuit would be more of a technicality. If people were very aware of how powerful cults are and how they recruit, fewer people would become Witnesses. Every Saturday Night Live type skit that mocks the Witnesses is extremely powerful publicity.

  Granted we should have mind control techniques and ways in which to avoid recruitment taught in public schools. This is neutral and perfectly ok with the First Amendment. It might apply to the Witnesses but it would equally apply to Catholics, Moonies, Mormons, politcal cults. too. Neutral laws of general applicability may interfere with religious rights. Within the past few years, Native Americans challenged a federal ban on hallucogens. Peyote usage in sacred ceremonies goes far back in their culture. The Court held peyote could be banned. Bigamy is another example. We don't live in Europe. Rather, we live here.

  I was just pondering the matter.
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  Band on the Run

  I've read discussions of this issues. It needs to be researched. I don't see any liability in general. People do horrid things to the Roman Catholic Church off-Broaday, museum shows, etc. Attacking them is not the same as attacking an individual. Also, if the WTS has free speech rights, we do, too. I don't want to say definitively until every possible lead has been researched.

  I thought of ads through a no cult org. might be more credible. Basically, those European suits allege certain patterns of conduct. A lawsuit would be more of a technicality. If people were very aware of how powerful cults are and how they recruit, fewer people would become Witnesses. Every Saturday Night Live type skit that mocks the Witnesses is extremely powerful publicity.

  Granted we should have mind control techniques and ways in which to avoid recruitment taught in public schools. This is neutral and perfectly ok with the First Amendment. It might apply to the Witnesses but it would equally apply to Catholics, Moonies, Mormons, politcal cults. too. Neutral laws of general applicability may interfere with religious rights. Within the past few years, Native Americans challenged a federal ban on hallucogens. Peyote usage in sacred ceremonies goes far back in their culture. The Court held peyote could be banned. Bigamy is another example. We don't live in Europe. Rather, we live here.

  I was just pondering the matter.
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  cptkirk

  they are self destructing, because of freedom of information. also the fact that they refuse to espouse any kind of psychology in their teachings, they are falling so far behind civil society. situations that arise between people inside the congregations, which are so simply explained by basic application of psychology, and also remedied by simple applications of psychology...they are still refusing this math of psychology. such as so and so has x amount of bible studies, and person y has less...so that means any issue that arises falls in favor of person x over person y. when again, basic psychology could explain and remedy such simple situations that arise...instead they use this archaic uninformed logic , which ends up exacerbating a little situation into a huge situation.

  they are crumbling in on themselves. i remember a few years ago i was watching c-span, and one of these old political geezers was giving a lot of information on how things worked behind the scenes....apparently he was a repub, and he was talking about how they hated clinton, and wanted to see his demise so desperately. (i guess because of the sexual thing, to them that was like the equivalent of matthew 24:15)...and he said something like "just stop hitting the bastard and let him fall". i think the KO punch in this analogy has been landed, just a matter of how long it takes to fully manifest.

  nikolas: if i could comment on your post. if you push things that hard, it might actually backfire. if you ever listen to the musings in type, or on tv, regarding the usa's stance on iran, you hear a lot of people say if you head on attack them, all it will do is unify them. ie. backfire.

  in this analogy, the witnesses see this head on attack...they do no research as if it's true or not, they only see it as confirming their beliefs, and they unify.
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  Diest

  I would love to money for raise anti-watchtower adds. Why not post the awake with all the dead kids on a bilbord...or something similar that is less likely to get our apostate org suited. It seems that there is more we can do in a PR sense, to make the witnesses less likely to get new recruits and make others look at them in a more foolish light than they already do.

  PR is our best hope, but the internet alone will not solve the issue.
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  Violia

  I have noticed that many times it is money that can end up sending someone to prison. My husband always points out Al Capone, mob boss. He was took down over tax evasion. Money is so important and it seems everything the wts does is b/c of fear of law suits and bad publicity. I do wonder why the fear b/c with their money and access to lawyers, what are they so concerned about?

  The flock book says to call Legal over any allegations of child abuse. I do not see this same admonition over charges of rape of a person of legal age.

  Katrina and other major disasters - the way the funds for aide were handled. I recall something about this b/c the brothers were just told to put them in same contribution box as all other funds and they would decide. Other org. that took money for help with Katrina were held accountable for how they handled the funds. Was the org ever forced to show their book's?

  What Nick said was shocking .

  We need a simple website that warns the public what they are getting into by accepting a Bible study. It does not need to be doctrine heavy, just to let them know what they are getting into.

  All the changes that have occurred in the wts were due to lawyers discerning areas they were vulnerable for lawsuits or areas that involved money. The old adage follow the money trail is still a good one.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Although big, dramatic victories would be ideal, the small, individual battles are often the best we can do. Spread the word. So far, I've had several interesting one-on-one conversations with "worldly" friends. Next week will be my first experience talking to a group. I posted about it, but that topic has sank like the Titanic.
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  ziddina

  I've suggested this one in the past...

  Someone on board posted that they've seen Jehovah's Witnesses set up an array of their literature at colleges. [Yes, I know - the height of hypocrisy - but this is the Watchtower Society we're talking about, here...]

  I suggested an anti-cult education stand, set up in every area that the Jehovah's Witnesses are. Someone else added the suggestion of speaking to the college dean and getting his permission to give a talk, demonstration or forum on cults and their recruitment practices - including, of course, the Jehovah's Witnesses...

  Zid - who's off to see Billy's thread.