I finally understand why my very intelligent, logical, incredibly well read dad/elder is incapable of the ability to reason on jw teachings he receives on the wi-fi144k/2b link

oompa

BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE TOO!!!!

he can only start with the firm confiction.......no...the POSITIVE position that a certain teaching/topic is irrefutable... because it comes directly from god on his wi-fi144K/2b link ....then his and many other hardcore jws very ABILITY to reason may be lost as it is with my dad

ah (overused jw word) but in order to reason your way to an answer on any topic...you MUST be able to consider and meditate (overused jw word) various information, other possibilities, alternate positions that may a better answer to or better define the topic

uh-uhh...he cant do that...because he ALREADY has ALL the answers...not only is there is no need to really reason on the topic, but the very ABILITY is totally removed....even for a man as smart as my dad...he cant even consider an alternate view that may be more correct, because there cant be one more correct than that of WT

...oh he may love to debate other ideas, and in his own logical jw way he enjoyed the chess game (but only to a point).....but before the match has begun he feels sorry for me because he is already certain that he will win the game...SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so for now i will stop trying and should have a few years ago...if they are diehard you will only push them further and further "in" (another overused jw term as in "is he still in" and "oh that lil slut has been out for months")...infuriating and sad all in the same moment........oompa

i think i have decided i really dont need sleep anymore...but i do think i want a bumper sticker or vanity plate with 144k2b on it

cptkirk

its hard for us to understand when we become something much greater than our parents. it's hard for it to sink in, because we instrinsically see them as greater than us. it's difficult to realize they are just looking for someone to tell them what to do like 90% of everyone else in the world.

thinking_1

I feel for ya Oompa. Haven't been dealing with it for years like you but so far I have had a couple conversations like you describe

uh-uhh...he cant do that...b ecause he ALREADY has ALL the answers...not only is there is no need to really reason on the topic, but the very ABILITY is totally removed

know exactly what you mean. It is really heartbreaking to see this in person. That thinking ability just not happening. The only good thing is it really solidifies for me that the WTS controls the thinking of individuals a la CCMC. And think my mentally in wife sees this a little when we have discussions together. But like I said it is heartbreaking.

OUTLAW

...oh he may love to debate other ideas, and in his own logical jw way he enjoyed the chess game (but only to a point)..

...but before the match has begun he feels sorry for me because he is already certain that he will win the game.

..SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are 7 Million JW`s who think just like him..If they can`t all be Wrong..

Then they must be Right!..

No one has a chance in a Logical Debate with a JW..

If the Questions get Too Hard..

They can always Run Away..And..You Lose..

Nana-na-na-na-na!

I`m going to the New System and you Can`t Come!

Jehovah Doesn`t want you..Cuz you Kiss Satans Bum!

...................... ...OUTLAW

flipper

OOMPA- Your dad is like most all of our JW relatives - they are being deceived through mind control. That's why they can't see that they're being deceived . It's basically that simple

OUTLAW

they are being deceived through mind control. That's why they can't see that they're being deceived

Good morning Flipper..

I don`t think thats always the case..

I`ve heard JW`s say..

"Even if it wasn`t the truth they wouldn`t leave"..

"Where else would we go?"..

JW`s are Institutionalised..They like their Prison..

No decisions to make..

No accounting for WBT$ approved Bad behaviour..

Every miniscule part of their life is mapped out for them..

No thinking involved..Just Obey..

......................;-)...OUTLAW

thetrueone

I agree with Outlaw, there are people who've I met and talked to that have the same ideology.

They feel the adverse necessity to be controlled within their thinking and behavior by a large power

structured organization, no matter how apparent structurally bogus that organization is.

Of course the WTS. institutes this suggestion to create its self supporting power as well as financial support.

By the way Oompa your father is not a logically intelligent rational thinking person, if he was he wouldn't be a JWS in the first place.

The WTS. is in business to sell a illusion, set up to appeal toward the public .

To acquire sustainability this delusion or illusion has to be stringently controlled and carefully monitored to who particularly involves

themselves with this delusion. You are being watched carefully all the time if you wear the JWS badge.

For some unfortunate ones this delusion cost them or ones in their family their lives, so yes you could say this religion is clearly dangerous and

self destructive.

Sorry Bud, if you want to really see what intelligence and logic is your best bet is to go to a University and take a course.

flipper

OUTLAW- I hear what you're saying. But what you wrote just proves how powerful mind control is. That JW's won't leave- even if they KNOW it isn't the " truth ". They are being institutionalized like you say , in prison with NO DECISIONS to make. But that's what all mind control cults do for people - make all their decisions. But they keep the JW's in subjection through FEAR and GUILT faking them out, making them tHINK there is no place to go- or else they'll be destroyed. Fear is a very powerful tool and an aphrodisiac for the GB to be able to use it.

Personally I think most JW's don't realize they are being deceived. They fall for the deception because it's familiar and comfortable to them. Like a frog being slowly boiled in a hot kettle, they don't realize what danger they are in. My 2 cents

sabastious

Flipper, Outlaw and thetrueone are all correct in different ways.

On one hand Outlaw's observations about people's "JW Choice" are indeed the end result of mind control. However there is always a personal responsibility factor that plays into all apsects of a JW life, or else their would be no EXJW's. Once the mind control is broken, sometimes randomly and just for an instant, it's up to the individual JW, at that moment, to give either into the fear of the unknown or to break through.

Many JW's just are too scared to enter the outside world even though they probably could envision themselves, far into the future, being ok without the JWs, but they see that path as just too treacherous for them.

ALL EX JW's, within their JW experience, had more than one opportunity to "realize" the truth about the truth. Yet, it is the WT instilled fear within the individual, not mind control, that keeps them choosing to stay. The choice is key here and it's where Outlaw and Trueone have a point.

My older brother, throughout his entire life, has consistently chosen a very "grey" lifestyle within the JW framework (DF'ed three times actually). Logically there is no reason for him to be a JW because he doesn't prefer JW friends and only hangs out with trusted friends from high school many years prior. I don't think he trusts in his own ability to make friends or develop any kind of social relationships. The Watchtower has duped him, since his earily developing years, into believing that the only viable relationships out there are one's that meet their printed criteria. It's a stalemate for his family and they are actually taking the heat that that kind of isolation brings to the family table, but he just won't make that hurdle past the fear and guilt.

It's his fault, not the Watchtower's.

-Sab

andys

The borg brainwashes people to believe with their mind control techniques that they use......................................

I finally understand why my very intelligent, logical, incredibly well read dad/elder is incapable of the ability to reason on jw teachings he receives on the wi-fi144k/2b link

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