Sleeping with the enemy (page 5)

sabastious

But perhaps the glasses you're wearing are distorting things a bit for you.

I think that's how it works, humanity I mean: we tell each other about each other's glasses.

-Sab

Nickolas

It is all about paradigms, sab. We all have them, many of them, and it is only when they shift that we see things differently, until they shift again.

I ask myself what is the difference for me, personally, between living in harmony with a Jehovah's Witness and living in harmony with, say, a muslim? I have problems with the muslim religion, too, because some of its leaders are radical and call for horrible things to happen to infidels (of which, I am happy to say, I am one). Groups of men in the name of Allah hijacking jetliners and flying them into buildings. That sort of thing. But why should I have a problem having a friendly relationship with a rank and file muslim? He doesn't care if I'm atheist, does he? Or am I fooling myself because all muslims are rotten to the core and will slit your throat at the first opportunity? I'm being sarcastic, for which I apologise just a little. If he treats me like a person and I treat him like a person we will get along just fine (at least they do on Little Mosque on the Prairie, so I understand). To think that he or anyone who practices his particular flavour of religion is incapable of that kind of interaction is a form of religious bigotry, isn't it? Or is the context qualified? What if I had been badly treated by muslims in my past? What if my muslim friends betrayed our friendship and turned their backs on me? Would I be more disposed to disliking all muslims because I think they're all the same? Maybe I would.

I don't think I need to stretch out the parallel analogy.

OUTLAW

Good morning Nickolas..

Muslims?..LOL!!..

I have a good Muslim friend..He`s a wise man..Tolerant of other religions..

And..

Not a pain in the ass about his religion..

.................... ;-)...OUTLAW

sabastious

Having a Muslim friend is not the same thing as being married to one.

-Sab

OUTLAW

LOL!!@Sab!!..

I don`t think I could marry a religious person now..

.....................;-)...OUTLAW

AGuest

Greetings, dear Nick, and the greatest of love and peace to you!

Perhaps I wasn't initially clear (I tend to have that problem - LOLOLOL!): I totally see your position and DO believe that we should treat ALL with love, regardless of their faith, religion, or lack thereof. Especially our enemies, and MORE especially our own flesh and blood. My comments were geared more toward what I perceived to be statements from you that those who come here and/or whine and moan about JWs really shouldn't... because YOU haven't experienced much ire from them (JWs). While I get that you've had great experiences (and have now come to realize that), my comments were (1) to help you see why that TRULY is (they do have an agenda, dear one) and (2) to help you see that not all have your experiences (and why)... and so this place serves a valid and necessary purpose.

Your dear wife loves you, as much if not more than she loves the WTBTS - no one here disputes that or can. But that is often the exception, not the rule (although it IS what they teach). I am NOT trying to tell you to change your view of your dear wife (omigosh, not at ALL!)... OR your manner of viewing or dealing with those JWs who treat you kindly. I just did my usual "thing"... and shared some truth with you, is all. Perhaps this was not the time/place - ah, well... I've gone and done it, now, so...

Both you and dear ST are absolutely correct, that love is best road to take... when DEALING with JWs. Goodness, it's the best tack when dealing with ANYONE, IMHO. Including, again, one's enemies. However, I was coming from a place of "if you truly want to get your wife OUT." And I stand by my assertion that the TRUTH... about God, Christ, and what the Bible TRULY teaches... will do that... better and faster... than ANYTHING else... for someone who LOVES God (vs. loves the WTBTS).

Because those who truly ARE concerned with truth... have a very hard time LIVING... a lie. Again, for some, truth may be that there is no God. But for those [still] conscious of their SPIRITUAL need... no God is not a option. That He isn't in any way connected to the WTBTS, however, IS. So long as they know He still exists... the "where" and with whom... isn't the thing of paramount importance.

So, that's all I was trying to say. Again, a lot in me... so a lot (indeed, too much, sometimes) often comes out - LOLOLOLOL!

Again, the greatest of love and peace to you... and glad you're enjoying your time with your dear wife, these days! KUDOS to you, both!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Nickolas

My comments were geared more toward what I perceived to be statements from you that those who come here and/or whine and moan about JWs really shouldn't... because YOU haven't experienced much ire from them (JWs).

No, you're in left field, dear. I have done my fair share of whining and moaning too (and I certainly have not characterised my experiences with Jehovah's Witnesses as "great"). My statements should be perceived within the context of a depersonalised general prejudice applied against all Jehovah's Witnesses. I think you know something about prejudice, Shelby. Don't get me wrong. Taken as a discrete subset of humanity I do not count many of their number as friends and none of them as close friends.

So much of how we perceive things comes down to, well, how we perceive things. If you tell me that you are aware of a different world than the one I see and you futher tell me that you are aware of what goes on in that world, I hope that I can be courteous enough to allow you to live peacefully with those beliefs. The way I look at it, if I live to be as old as my dad when he died I have about 8,000 more days in which to live, and then the lights go out and all this stuff won't matter anymore. If I can live in peace and harmony with people and they can live in peace and harmony with me for those 8,000 days then all is well. If they're being decent with me because they want to win me over, well so be it. I'll be decent back and maybe take an opportunity or two to gently shift their paradigms. Win/win.

AGuest

No, you're in left field, dear.

I can accept that, dear one (again, peace to you!). As you intimate, it's all about perception.

Peace, my dear!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

unshackled

I've been following this thread and it is a subject that I still struggle with. Yes, agreed the WT and the R&F are two different things - one is the manipulator the other is the manipulated. BUT the question for myself is: where does one draw the line between an R&F member being just an innocent victim or fully responsible for their choices and actions?

I come from a large family, 7 siblings, and roughly half are still in and half are out. Parents are still in. The ones that are in practice shunning and treat us non-JWs without natural love. They choose to put conditions on their love. Yes, the WT directs this behaviour but they are the ones that act it out.

So when it comes to those who were close to me - friends and family - I do have personal issues with their actions. I want to hold them accountable for their choices. Why? Because many of us have chosen to question the WT, further yet, many of us have chosen to have the "balls" to leave. If we are capable of that, why are they not? If we can choose not to act out the WT's instructions, why won't they? Who is ultimately responsible for their actions - the WT or themselves? Admittedly, I struggle with those questions.

Sleeping with the enemy

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