Do you give to beggars?

by jean-luc picard 101 Replies latest jw friends

Band on the Run

Well, how do you emigrate to Canada from the States? I know to cross the border. What are the req'ments?
Lady Lee

Well, how do you emigrate to Canada from the States? I know to cross the border. What are the req'ments?
A very quick Google will get you to this: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp
Magwitch

Hey ballistic...That is Fisherman's Wharf
WontLeave

Unless you live in a third-world country, there are programs in place that keep people from actually being hungry. Anyone claiming to be begging for food money is lying. There are also homeless shelters. The problem most "homeless" have with the shelters is they have requirements for staying there: Job searching, drug screens, sobriety, etc. If they are "homeless", it's because they've chosen to be. Their addictions take precedence to their personal and family responsibilities. Giving someone like that money only encourages the lifestyle they're in. Unless they are allowed to crash and burn, they will never give up that path. You think you're being nice by giving them money, but all you're really doing is buying them drugs. And if you give them "necessities", all you do is save them money on those things, which they will spend on drugs. You can't help someone who refuses to help themselves. In fact, you're exacerbating their addiction by being an enabler.
Anyone who invokes "Christianity" as an excuse to buy themselves a warm, fuzzy feeling for pocket change; you're an idiot. Jesus said to help the widows and orphans in a society where they really would starve to death without help. Women and children are very well cared for in industrialized societies. Granted, being a ward of the state isn't an optimum life, but they definitely will not go hungry or cold. These are not the people you see begging.
The handicapped are well provided for, as far as necessities go, as well. You'll find that most beggars are able-bodied men who could easily be working. Now that the economy has taken a downturn, there are more than ever riding the wave of guilt and ignorance, hanging out in Wal-Mart parking lots, begging. The truth is, jobs are still to be had, but people refuse to work. Good help is impossible to find. You'll see beggars at gas stations, claiming to have run out of gas. They'll invoke a baby or child, claiming to be out of baby food or diapers. These people are not going to the welfare office, because they are liars and the welfare office will demand proof of their claims.
You want a cheap, warm, fuzzy feeling? Go volunteer at an animal shelter or be a big brother/sister for some real victims that didn't create their own problems. Or is that too much effort? 5 seconds of your time and $1 in change is all you're willing to invest, then act like you're saving the world? Don't make me puke.
soft+gentle

if I have a few coins I will give it to them. usually I decline
AGuest

Unless you live in a third-world country, there are programs in place that keep people from actually being hungry.
Er? You obviously haven't utilized many, if any, of these programs, dear Wontleave (peace to you!). And you obviously aren't up on the world's hunger statistics... particularly in the "developed" world. Certainly not in the U.S.:
http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/hunger-and-poverty-statistics.aspx
Anyone claiming to be begging for food money is lying.
And you know this... how?
There are also homeless shelters. The problem most "homeless" have with the shelters is they have requirements for staying there: Job searching, drug screens, sobriety, etc.
They also have occupancy limits and, unfortunately, there are way more people who need the services of such shelters... than there are beds.
If they are "homeless", it's because they've chosen to be.
Really...
Their addictions take precedence to their personal and family responsibilities.
Again, really. So all homeless people are addicts? What of the unemployed? The displaced (due to closing/bankrupt businesses or condemned housing... due largely to code violations by slumlords)? How about the mentally ill? The undiagnosed disabled? The victims of child/spousal abuse? The former foster care participants? How about veterans? The elderly?
Giving someone like that money only encourages the lifestyle they're in. Unless they are allowed to crash and burn, they will never give up that path. You think you're being nice by giving them money, but all you're really doing is buying them drugs. And if you give them "necessities", all you do is save them money on those things, which they will spend on drugs.
I can't even comment on this perception... other than to say, "Good Lord, how'd YOU get loose from the clutches of the WTBTS looney-bin wardens... and can someone call one of them and let them know we've got what appears to be one of theirs over here?"
You can't help someone who refuses to help themselves. In fact, you're exacerbating their addiction by being an enabler.
And you believe ALL of these "refuse" to help themselves... as well as assume them ALL to be addicts. I'd LOVE to have a look in the mirror YOU look into every day...
Anyone who invokes "Christianity" as an excuse to buy themselves a warm, fuzzy feeling for pocket change; you're an idiot.
And those who are not "christians"... but just decent people with fellow feeling? Idiots, too, in your (not so humble) opinion?
Jesus said to help the widows and orphans in a society where they really would starve to death without help.
First, "Jesus" didn't say that, at all. Second, what "society"? They had the Law... which REQUIRED them not only to look after widows and orphans (primarily by not gleaning their fields) but MORE, including:
“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?" Isaiah 58:6, 7
Women and children are very well cared for in industrialized societies.
Really. Apparently, again, you're no very up on your information. Perhaps this will help bring you up to speed (it's a quiz, so get your mouse ready):
http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/quiz.aspx
Granted, being a ward of the state isn't an optimum life, but they definitely will not go hungry or cold.
And you know this because...
These are not the people you see begging.
Actually, former wards of the state make up a great part of the currently homeless... and hungry. Particularly those who were formerly part of the foster care system.
The handicapped are well provided for, as far as necessities go, as well. You'll find that most beggars are able-bodied men who could easily be working.
Yes, of course, because everyone ELSE is employed... and so a former veteran with PTSD... or a person who was severely abused and so is emotionally disabled... or the adult child of an alcoholic/addict who suffers from disabilities brought on in the fetal stage but no one figured that out, say, 40-50 years ago... or the young man pimped by his "uncled" or young woman pimped by her mother so early they were both taken out of school in order to "provide" for the household and so knows nothing else BUT the street life... should all be employeed, too. Right?
Now that the economy has taken a downturn, there are more than ever riding the wave of guilt and ignorance, hanging out in Wal-Mart parking lots, begging.
Desperate times usually call for desperate measures...
The truth is, jobs are still to be had, but people refuse to work. Good help is impossible to find. You'll see beggars at gas stations, claiming to have run out of gas. They'll invoke a baby or child, claiming to be out of baby food or diapers. These people are not going to the welfare office, because they are liars and the welfare office will demand proof of their claims.
Or... they did go to the welfare office... and are actually receiving assistance... but the $600 a month just never manages to cover the $700 in rent, $100 in electricity, $100 in non-food items (including diapers and laundry), and $50 in gas/bus fare. Not to mention the $300/week per child... for childcare... so that such one CAN work (or go to school)...
You want a cheap, warm, fuzzy feeling? Go volunteer at an animal shelter or be a big brother sister for some real victims that didn't create their own problems.
Or... why not do BOTH: volunteer at an animal shelter (or even a HUMAN shelter)... or be a big bro/sis... and STILL help someone who asks it of you?
Or is that too much effort? 5 seconds of your time and $1 in change is all you're willing to invest, then act like you're saving the world?
You seriously underestimate a whole lot of people with kind hearts. You assume that for them it's either/or. For many... its time AND money. So you really should consider putting your judgmental misconceptions and misassumptions... back in your very ignorant head. Where they belong.
Don't make me puke.
Likewise. But I ain't mad at YOU... and so, again, peace to YOU!
A slave of Christ,
SA
tec

Everything Shelby just said, and a couple other things, Won'tleave.
A few homeless people freeze to death every year here in Edmonton. Never mind all the frostbite and amputations that occur in addition to that. The shelters are filled to capacity... they HAVE to turn people away, whether those people are following the rules or not. We even have vans that drive around offering blankets, warm food, and some time to warm up inside... the ones who can't get into the shelter. The winters here are hard. It doesn't take much to freeze to death, and if no one did anything to help, even more people would be freezing to death.
I will repeat : SHELTERS TURN AWAY WHEN FILLED TO CAPACITY.
In addition, you must have an address here to get welfare. You can use the shelters, as Lady Lee said, as an address to get you started, but again... there are limits as to how many people can do so at a time.
As well, people living on nearly nothing, or nothing at all, don't tend to get first pick at jobs. No address - no job. No phone - no job. Not showered and shaven - no job. They might want to work, but no one is going to hire them. They have to get OFF the street first. Not so easy to do, once there.
I hope you consider losing the judgmental and ignorant attitude. If you haven't been there, then you have no idea. Obviously, you haven't been there.
Peace,
Tammy
LV101

YES -- always. it doesn't make me feel good to give but makes me sick they aren't getting real aid/help --- meds, whatever. i realize there are lazy ones who won't work and the begging is a job for some but they obviously have mental problems, are dysfunctional, delusional, but still need help.
watersprout

Anyone who invokes "Christianity" as an excuse to buy themselves a warm, fuzzy feeling for pocket change; you're an idiot.
Wontleave
Well I do believe I was the only one who wrote that (warm, fuzzy feeling)... In fact I believe I said it's what my 8 YEAR OLD daughter said...She most certainly DOES NOT do it to BUY herself a warm, fuzzy feeling... She is a child who finds it in her heart to give what she has... Nowt wrong with that... You don't know what each and every one of us does in our private lives... Who we help or what we do to try and make this earth a more pleasant place to live. So calling US idiots just because we give some change to beggers is just plain nasty!
My daughter has been taught since she was a baby to share what she had... To give a begger her pocket money is her decision and not one I will tell her NOT to do... She is a child and there is only so much she can do and yes it distresses her that people are suffering... But she said if she can give them some money to buy something to make them happy then thats good... You have no idea about the motives of any of us and you have just got my back up!
If you are going to include MY daughter in your ''idiot Christian'' comment expect me to react like a momma bear!
Lady Lee
WontLeave
You need an education on real life
Unless you live in a third-world country, there are programs in place that keep people from actually being hungry.
Yes there are programs but they aren't very good. When I was living in the homeless shelter meals were not provided. We had to pay for them. I got a whopping $12 a day for food. I only got the money on a daily basis and only of I showed up to get it before a certain time which was often difficult due to my chronic pain and the problems it causes with my sleep. Just how far do you think $12 a day will take you if you had to buy your meals?
Anyone claiming to be begging for food money is lying.
The problem isn't that people are begging for food. Plenty of people here have offered food. Some are grateful for it. Others aren't. They want the cash. People beg for food because they are hungry.
There are also homeless shelters. The problem most "homeless" have with the shelters is they have requirements for staying there: Job searching, drug screens, sobriety, etc.
OK I worked in one and the requirement that you were sober or not high is true. Purely from a safety perspective we couldn't allow them into the shelter. People were not required to look for work or required to do drug screens. People who wanted other services like into a rehab program run by the shelter or those who were looking for work and already on welfare but didn't have enough money to rent a room somewhere were required to do what they could to find a job but that had nothing to do with living in a shelter.
What they were required other than being sober and not high was to check their weapons in at the door. Yes weapons. No clubs, baseball bats, knives or anything else that could be used to hurt someone. (never saw or heard of a gun though)
And they had to leave their prescription medication in the office and come get their next dose when needed. This was done for a couple of reasons. Some showed up with a bag of pills intent on committing suicide. If we had the pills they couldn't do that there. And no one could steal their meds if they were safely locked in the office.
Here is a list of the type of people who were allowed to be in the shelter.
- Those with mental health issues that could not live on their own so they rented a room in the shelter. Yes it took up beds but these people would have been on the street without it
- victims of fire with no place to go. They usually didn't stay long but they did come.
- abused women and their children. If the women's shelters were full we took them in until a place was available for them. Most rooms had more than one bed so children could stay with their mother (men were not allowed on the women's floor)
- People who got sick and were hospitalized, couldn't pay the rent while they were in the hospital (because they weren't working) and lost their apartments and often everything in it. Since they no longer had a job or a place to live they came to the shelter until they could get back on their feet again - believe me this happens more often than I ever knew
- people in wheelchairs who could not find accessible housing. Our shelter was wheelchair accessible so they stay in the shelter until an accessible apartment could be found.
- people who did have jobs but the work didn't pay them enough to find a place to live. The requirement for most housing there was first and last month's rent and a damage deposit. That is a lot of money if you only have a minimum wage job.
- Winnipeg is the cross-road of Canada. If you are going one way or the other across the country you pretty much have to drive through Winnipeg. So we had people whose car broke down or they ran out of money. It is amazing how many people think you can drive across Canada in 2 or 3 days. It takes a day just to cross Ontario. I've done it more than once so I know. And that is 24 hours driving not just a part of a day.
- the elderly who had family that refused to take them in or they had no where else to go and there were no places available in senior's residences.
- and yes we had the addicts - snort it, drink it, shoot it up, gamble it away - they all showed up. The funny thing is that I never saw one of this group our begging for food or money.
If they are "homeless", it's because they've chosen to be.
As you see from the list above most are there because they have no where else to go. It was a small minority that fit into that last group.
Their addictions take precedence to their personal and family responsibilities.
Yes addictions do that to people
Giving someone like that money only encourages the lifestyle they're in. Unless they are allowed to crash and burn, they will never give up that path. You think you're being nice by giving them money, but all you're really doing is buying them drugs. And if you give them "necessities", all you do is save them money on those things, which they will spend on drugs. You can't help someone who refuses to help themselves. In fact, you're exacerbating their addiction by being an enabler.
I actually do believe this and most of the people I worked with believed the same. We did our best to encourage them to get into the addiction program or rehab. We even arranged for them to get into a detox centre. We gave them as much support as we could to help them and not enable them. Sadly some were so far gone that we knew they would eventually die. And many did.
Anyone who invokes "Christianity" as an excuse to buy themselves a warm, fuzzy feeling for pocket change; you're an idiot.
No need to call people names
Jesus said to help the widows and orphans in a society where they really would starve to death without help. Women and children are very well cared for in industrialized societies.
Ever been to Canada or the northern US or Europe in the winter? Forget food. Many would freeze to death. When I was working nights we went out 2 times int he night looking at places where many of the really homeless hung out looking for bodies lying in the snow. Then we would call the police to come and get them and either take them to the drunk tank or the hospital or the morgue. People don't last too long outside when it is -30 below zero
Women and children are the least well cared for in any industrialized country. More children live below the poverty line in industrial countries than you could believe. Many children go to school hungry which has resulted in breakfast and lunch programs being started in many schools. They see these kids and know they can't learn if they are hungry. If a parent has a minimum wage job and has to pay outrageous prices for the necessities like rent, utilities and other necessities something has to give. Often it is the quality of food they have.
In much of EU, the UK and Canada we provide health care. Int he US the number of people who go bankrupt because of sky-rocketing medical bills they can never pay off is astronomical. Many people can't afford insurance so if ti means food of medical care many people will choose the food while their health suffers. There is a reason why Obama wants health care for all in the US.
Granted, being a ward of the state isn't an optimum life, but they definitely will not go hungry or cold. These are not the people you see begging.
How far would you go on $12 a day?
The handicapped are well provided for, as far as necessities go, as well.
Hello!! Waving my hands over my head. I am disabled. I use a wheelchair to get from my apartment to the garbage room about 50 feet from my door. If I am so well cared for then why did I wait in a homeless shelter for 9 months before they found me a place to live? Why was I given $103 a month for other necessities besides the $12 a day for food? Let' see: 12 x 30 = 360 + 103 = 463. Yup a grand total of $463 dollars a month but my rent was paid while I was in the shelter. By the way we were not allowed to cook in our rooms. Not even a kettle to boil water. We had to use the "kitchen" which consisted of a hotplate with 2 burners, a kettle , a microwave oven and a toaster. - shared by 30 or more people. Try living like that for 9 months and then tell me you are well cared for.
You'll find that most beggars are able-bodied men who could easily be working.
Really - wanna give them a job? Most would appreciate it. Willing to give them enough money to make it to their first paycheck? Wanna help them pay for 1st and last months rent plus damage deposit?
Now that the economy has taken a downturn, there are more than ever riding the wave of guilt and ignorance, hanging out in Wal-Mart parking lots, begging.
Actually I have never seen a beggar anywhere near a Walmrt. Usually they are downtown asking people who do work for money
The truth is, jobs are still to be had, but people refuse to work. Good help is impossible to find.
OK this is how it works. If you haven't got a job they wants someone with experience but you can't get experience without the job. Considering the down-turn in the economy employers are going to hire the person with the most experience they can find at the cheapest rate they will pay. Many jobs now require a lot of overtime which is not paid. If the employer can get away with paying minimum wage he will do it. The average person cannot manage on 1 full-time job if he has a family. So both parents have to work or he gets 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. If you have young children sometimes child care costs more than you would make at a minimum wage job so you just can't do it.
You'll see beggars at gas stations, claiming to have run out of gas. They'll invoke a baby or child, claiming to be out of baby food or diapers. These people are not going to the welfare office, because they are liars and the welfare office will demand proof of their claims.
OK this is how this works where I was in Winnipeg. If you were on welfare and you did run out of food or diapers you could come to our shelter and pick some up. But we had to call welfare for approval first and the money would be deducted from your next check. Food vouchers could be received but the amount would be deducted from your next check. So you start the next month and you are already below what you need to survive and now you have less. And less and less. And yea some people get fed up with the hoops they have to jump through just to survive.
Are some people scamming the system? Sure but by far they are the minority.

Do you give to beggars?

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