by Franklin Massey 50 Replies latest jw friends
Isn't it ironic that John Lennons song is about all the things he doesn't believe in...God, Jesus, buddah, kings, elvis, the beetles...he just believes in Himself...and Yoko....but now the world has made an idol of HIM. (not you flipper, I enjoyed the song by the way). It just puzzles me.
As humans we seem to have a inbult need to elevate people...I am trying to understand why that is.
mindseye- Joseph Campbell: The Power Of Myth
TEC- The quote you quoted , " since people don't feel comfortable saying they are non believers, etc. " I guess I'm not one of those people. I feel very comfortable saying I don't believe in religion , or the alleged divine origin of Jesus. Don't get me wrong. If the historical accounts are somewhat accurate- Jesus sounded like a wise, caring, insightful man who kept a pulse on the current tensions of his time between the Romans and the Jews . He may have had good intuitive abilities to see that the political tensions would come to a head in HIS generation ( 70 C.E. ) in which the Roman armies invaded and devastated Jerusalem , sure. However many intuitive men exist in our present time who can sense the tensions and pulse of our time with political extremes happening and have been accurate in predicting certain explosive happenings between countries also.
So may I ask you this question : You claim you have faith in Christ, but you are not religious ? Does that mean you see Jesus as I am explaining him ; that he was just a good, decent man who had great intuition into the political and social tensions of his time ? I guess I am unable to understand how someone could believe in the divinity of Jesus coming from god, yet not claiming to be religious ? Would you indulge me in a little clarity on your position ? Thanks. Inquiring minds want to know. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
Here's the thing about the Joseph Campbell stuff, though. Myth and faith are an important stage of our HISTORY and the evolution of our human society. We MUST GROW BEYOND them in order to become all we can be as intelligent custodians of our planet and civilization. They have become a hinderance to progress, IMO.
As for whether God (or gods - of any type) can be proven, perhaps WE can't prove they exist but IF they are REAL then THEY CAN PROVE THEMSELVES. They don't. They haven't. Show up and then we'll talk. Until then it behooves us to act as if you're no more real than the teapot that orbits the sun.
STILL THINKING- I don't believe John Lennon was trying to elevate himself , just being honest about the things he may have weighed out in his life and didn't believe would save him or believed in fully. It's good to remember that OTHER people may have elevated him or Elvis to " godlike " status - but that doesn't mean that HE did so about himself. He, you, or I can't control how other people view us, but we can only control our own views and reaction to the world and how people view us. Trying to make some sense here, don't know if I'm accomplishing that, but trying. LOL ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
P.S. I think one weakness of the human race is that too many people look for a " healer ", a " pie in the sky " type messiah to save them, when really deep down inside- the answer is within ourselves. Just my 2 cents.
Everything you need to know is in L. Frank Baum's The Wizard Of Oz.
Would you indulge me in a little clarity on your position ?
I can try :)
You claim you have faith in Christ, but you are not religious ?
Yes.
Does that mean you see Jesus as I am explaining him ; that he was just a good, decent man who had great intuition into the political and social tensions of his time ?
No. I see Him as the Son of God, the Christ, the Truth, and the Life.
I guess I am unable to understand how someone could believe in the divinity of Jesus coming from god, yet not claiming to be religious ?
I do not believe in any religion. I do not believe any religion IS or has the Truth. Some truths, sure. But I believe in Christ alone, and that HE is the Truth - about God. So no religion. No affiliation other than with Christ and the Body of Christ (as long as He will have me) No rules. No doctrines. No rituals. No leaders or mediators, etc. Just Christ.
Spiritual... not religious. I don't believe what anyone tells me about Christ, just because they say it - no matter who they are. I go to Him and ask for understanding, or truth on that matter, and I wait for an answer. I get those answers, btw. If I don't have them all yet, then I have faith that I will. Because I always have before.
Hope that helps, and please feel free to ask anything else. Sometimes I speak too much and lose the point of what was asked, and sometimes I'm too brief ;)
Peace back to you,
Tammy
Flipper....LOL...thats what I was saying (maybe not very well)...I don't think he tried to make himself into an idol of any sort, in fact he seemed to be trying to say the opposite.....but that made him an idol....LOL
It just puzzles me why humans (in general) want to/need to make idols of other people.
There appears to be a lot of airshots here based on semantics . . . One persons "religious" is another persons "spiritual". One persons "admirable" is anothers "idolised".
It just puzzles me why humans (in general) want to/need to make idols of other people.
In there somewhere lies the answer . . . humans seem to want to latch on to something which lies outside of the human fragility common to us all. I think we all just want validity from others . . . to avoid being lonely. There has to be some motive for believing the unprovable.
TEC- Thanks for clarifying your position. I understand more fully now- I think. So you are kind of down on organized religion and doctines , etc too . I see that you feel Jesus is sent by God and that's cool if it helps you get by in a personal one on one way , for sure. Good for you. I feel I don't need that as I trust in myself and my wife and some close friends and in humanity as well with my own thinking ability. Because I see no need for a mediator. I don't believe I need to apologize for my blunders or have anyone die for me. I do the best I can to show love to people , not to please any one supreme being - but because it's ethical, kind, humane, I enjoy it, and it assists in human relations. I am happy your method is working for you though. I respect that.
STILL THINKING- I see what you were saying now. In answer to your question on " why humans want to or need to make idols of other people"? I believe it's due to insecurity within themselves. They don't have enough trust in themselves or their own judgments on things that they need to let some idol, celebrity, or religious or political leaders do their thinking for them. It's much easier to tune out and say , " The Tea party or Angelina Jolie is who I look up to for direction ! " Instead of using their own minds and not just following the crowd. It's too scary for many people to rely on themselves. We've been made to think from our social structure in society ; whether political, religious, or commercial sources- all of them tell us we are deficient somehow , we don't measure up - so if we identify with an idol, then it makes some feel better about themselves . Just my one cent on it
